Transcript 

 

Meet Dr. John Kim

Michelle [00:01:18]:
If there were perhaps two criteria I would consider highest for podcast guests. The first would be that they provide information that people can actually use in their real lives. And the second would be that they're funny. And I have to tell you, our guest today brings a lot of humor and brings a lot of education and a lot of supportive information. Doctor Jon Kim is hilarious and brilliant and I am so excited for you to hear this episode. We are talking about detoxification and talking about it in a way that's really applicable to you in your real life. We talk about the client experiences that Doctor John Kim has had, his personal health story, and why he became a functional medicine pharmacist, which is actually quite rare as many there are many functional medicine doctors and dietitians, but functional medicine pharmacists, specifically in compounding pharmacies, are rare to find, and one who works in a coaching capacity is even more rare. Here's a little bit more about Doctor John Kim.

Michelle [00:02:19]:
Driven by a personal health journey, Doctor Kim is dedicated to uncovering the root causes of chronic illnesses. Today, he owns and operates Robinson Wellness Pharmacy and his own wellness practice, Doctor Kim Wellness, both situated in Mendham, New Jersey, providing holistic healthcare solutions to optimize hormonal balance, address immune dysfunction, and restore gut health. Doctor Kim passionately lectures nationally and internationally, empowering individuals with cutting edge health information. He is a staunch advocate for medical freedom, championing individuals rights to make informed decisions about their healthcare. This is something that I am so in alignment with. Doctor John on is just making sure that everyone is making autonomous decisions regarding their body. And I am so excited to bring you this episode and bring you Doctor John today.

Michelle [00:03:19]:
I am joyously joined by Doctor John Kim, an incredible pharmacist us today, who brings with us so much knowledge and information and also an amazing sense of humor. So I'm really excited to have you.

Dr. John Kim [00:03:30]:
Here today, Michelle, it is an honor to be on your podcast. I thank you so much for your invitation. I know we are so close by, but too bad we can't do this in person. But next time we will do something in person. Maybe in the middle of New York City, in a restaurant somewhere, breaking bread, gluten free bread, if you can. Definitely. Definitely.

Michelle [00:03:57]:
We are going to talk about detox and drainage and what I think for a lot of people are buzzwords in the kind of biohacking and natural health space, and you are going to give us the real information behind it. We're going to talk through kind of how nervous people should be about environmental pollutants, how real the threat of those are, and what we can do for our health should be, encounter them. And then also, you have such a powerful stance on elimination diets as I do, which is there's a time and place for them. So I want to get into that, too.

 

Dr. John Kim's background

Dr. John Kim [00:04:28]:
My name's doctor John Kim. I'm a functional medicine pharmacist. And from the get go, when I first started doing functional medicine, I started doing hormone consults. That was the reason why I got into this entire gambit of so called functional medicine at that point in time. When I started out back in 2008, was called holistic medicine. That was it. I mean, we didn't really talk about functional medicine. And then at that point in time, that's when centers like a four m just started their functional medicine fellowship training.

Dr. John Kim [00:05:01]:
And I was probably one of the few pharmacists to be involved in that gambit. And then you had all the mds, gos, nutritionists, and pas getting involved and really learning together. So really fun. But when I first started out was just on hormones and how to manage hormones by giving hormone replacement therapy.

Michelle [00:05:20]:
And that was as early as you said. 2008.

Dr. John Kim [00:05:22]:
You were 2008.

Michelle [00:05:24]:
Wow. So that was very seemingly ahead of the mainstream. And probably, I'm assuming you faced a lot of, like, criticism, because even I feel like bioidentical hormone replacement therapy now is still considered very taboo. Is that true? Is that what happened?

Dr. John Kim [00:05:39]:
I don't think it was as taboo as back in the day, because when we first started out, there was no real regulation or any of that nature. So a lot of physicians just pushed the envelope into whatever they want to give. And that was also a problem. Right. There's certain doctors end up having to give super physiological dosing on hormones and then thinking that just optimizing estrogen, progesterone, testosterone would do the trick. And including thyroid, I've seen overcorrected thyroid all the time. Not looking at the entire picture of possibly gut issues, looking at detox pathways, cortisol mismanagement, sugar issues, stress response, poor eating habits, all these things that now we're looking at much more. They weren't even teaching that as much, except for, hey, if you look at the labs that's looking like this, you give this much of hormones, if you see this type of a cortisol issues, you give this supplements and nothing more in terms of looking at deeper things that I'm looking at nowadays.

Dr. John Kim [00:06:46]:
And I learned a lot of mistakes based on those mistakes. And so if you talk about hormones, Adanja's hormones and such, I'm all there. But the thing is, do you really need those hormones optimized to a level that you don't really need to be done? Except for what are we looking at your lifestyle issues? Are you sleeping correctly? How's your relationship? How's your diet? Are you taking care of yourself? How's your work schedule? All these things should be done holistically, even before getting through in terms of hormone issues, even detox, for that matter. And so I call this the foundational care that needs to be managed before I do anything.

Michelle [00:07:30]:
When patients are going into their office and let's say they do have a thyroid issue, the thyroid issue is being regarded as a very diagnostic and medication focused approach. Right. As the solution, essentially. So it's like you have thyroid problem. Here is thyroid medication. And what you're saying is through all of these years, now, 15 years of you working with people, you've seen that it's so much more complicated than just a one pill solution. And you would expect of all people, as a pharmacist, for you to be pro only medicine. And certainly you found it's not enough, and it's certainly not the root cause treatment for a lot of hormonal issues.

Medicine is not always enough for a lot of hormonal issues

Dr. John Kim [00:08:07]:
It's not. And I made that mistake early on. I thought just for me, and I traditionally been trained as a compounding pharmacist. I own a compounding pharmacy in a lab right now. So my overall main business before was just dispensing more prescriptions, right. More prescriptions, more cells, enough to provide more help. I'm going to make an impact on these patients and they're going to feel better, which I thought was the main factor, but that's not the scenario. Majority of the patients, if you want to just break down thyroid hormone, for instance, majority of patients that coming in, they actually have a elevated TSH, for that matter.

Dr. John Kim [00:08:48]:
But just looking at the TSH doesn't give you the full picture. And this is the main fact that I end up having to always rant about why are doctors still looking at TSH issue instead of fact that, let's look at the entire breakdown of the thyroid hormones. Look at the free and total t three, t four. What are we looking at? Tpo, thyroid antibodies. Right. Reverse a t three. I'm like, eh. Do we really need to look at it? It's only going to show you that there's an underlying issue.

Dr. John Kim [00:09:16]:
What is underlying issue? Stress dummy. That's a lot of times. Or inflammation. So do we need to look at that? Probably not. And then you're looking at tsas, but tsh just a marker saying that, hey, there's a poor regulatory aspect that's going on within your pituitary gland and everything else that's going on. What is the root of the issue? A lot of times it's the fact that they are missing key micronutrients, electrolytes. Right. They're not eating well, they're not sleeping well, they're not taking care of themselves correctly, and they're completely burnt out.

Dr. John Kim [00:09:52]:
And majority of times dealing with poor cortisol issues, let's just say they have adrenal fatigue problem that end up having to show us similar symptoms as poor thyroid function. Majority of times, if you fix the actual nutrient issues, if they eat well, taking themselves, including gain the proper sleep management taken care of, and then having to manage the cortisol and the stress issues and the sugar dysregulation, thyroid actually comes back normal. So do we need to fix the actual thyroid issue with thyroid medications? Probably not, but you have to also looking at if the thyroid is not being managed correctly, even though you did all those things, then the next step is, are we going to be looking at toxicity? Are they using the right form of water that they're drinking? Are they end up having to deal with certain heavy metal toxicity? What is a profession? All these things? I mean, I have a part time pharmacist that he works for me, but he's a nuclear pharmacist, so he actually works with nuclear. So he needs to get checked properly. So all these things needs to be asked. But thing is like trying to throw all, everything all at once, probably not the best choice to do it. Nor are we end up having to throw just medication alone with the trick either. So there's a right amount of diagnosis, but also clinical management that practitioners need to look at properly.

Dr. John Kim [00:11:30]:
I think that comes from overall experience and, as well, mistakes that they made before.

Michelle [00:11:37]:
You also have to unlearn a little bit, I'm assuming, about what you're learning in a non kind of holistic or functional capacity, because quite literally the standard, the gold standard test for thyroid function is TSH. That is what is used by medical doctors. So it is. I mean, not every medical doctor. That's a gross over exaggeration. But I'm assuming that what you learned in your medical schooling was really focused on medication management for thyroid issues. When did you start to see the bigger picture? Was it just working with patients and just seeing, hey, they're not getting the results, or they're not actually feeling better, even if their TSH is better. When did it kind of, like, switch for you?

Dr. John Kim [00:12:19]:
This is the light bulb moment that I actually had was when I just followed didactic protocols that they gave out at the a four M and having to make few mistakes. And I'll give you a perfect example. I had a patient who was dealing with adrenal stress issues, and then one of the key supplements they actually recommend for cortisol management was giving rhodiola simple, like, everybody could use it. It could end up having to help manage your cortisol level and such. But they never taught us that there's a genetic snp issues when we're dealing with rhodiola. Right? And that patient actually had the most severe hot flashes taking rhodiola. That was one of the things that I just had aha. Momentum.

Dr. John Kim [00:13:05]:
I can't be utilizing all these things. And then another thing that actually ended up having to really make an impactful moment was I had. This patient was very overweight and having to have the same discussion every single time. Every single month. We're discussing about hormones. She always says, during the midday, around 03:00 p.m. I feel like my eyeballs is going into my skull. And then I have issue with lights and then all these things.

Dr. John Kim [00:13:33]:
And then I never bother to ask, what kind of lunch does she have? She would conveniently go to McDonald's, order Big Mac, right? Because her son, who's five years old, wanted kids meal. So that was basic convenience factor, but never factored in terms of that's causing a lot of toxicity. It was causing a lot of sugar dysregulation on top, right. So what is the whole point of using hormones or even bothered to give biased cream to her at that point that we were dispensing bias capsules. I would never dispense estrogen capsules from now on. But at that point in time, you just learn from the issues. And then you just had this moment of all that education, I got all that training. It's not enough.

Dr. John Kim [00:14:19]:
I have to really dive in and then learn on my own and then really develop a right methodology that really resonates for me and then the future clients I want to work with. And how do we get these patients correctly balanced without utilizing hormones if they don't need to use it?

Michelle [00:14:40]:
You do understand that you are not like most people, though, right? Like a lot of people don't do push drugs first and then lifestyle solutions later. So I just want to commend you on that and appreciate it. And also, it is from your lived experience and it becomes, you know, I've worked with thousands, over a thousand clients, and it becomes very obvious these things that you're saying when you work with even several clients and you're like, oh, it literally just doesn't work. Like, it just does not work to only, you know, use medication solutions which are completely necessary sometimes. But like you said, if you're highly stressed and your cortisol is blocking the conversion of your thyroid hormone anyway, it doesn't really matter how much thyroid you take because you're not going to get any of the active form. Or if you're building up in toxins and that's making it impossible for your body to do the work it needs to do or utilize all these extra nutrients to get those out, you're still not going to be able to have those nutrients to build and produce the other hormones that you need. Take us through detox and drainage. You're kind of a detox and drainage king so you, you have to talk to us about it.

 

Talk to us about detox and drainage

Dr. John Kim [00:15:39]:
So detox wise, everybody talks about detox. Everybody's like, oh, you could do a weekly detox or annual detox, or you could do this, you could do water detox, all these things that's going on. But the get all to the root of the issue with detox is this is one thing that I end up having to ask is what are you trying to achieve. What are you exposed to and why you want to do detox? Right. So that that's the number one thing that no one asks about. There's so many influences on Instagram. Talk about train. Strange drainage.

Dr. John Kim [00:16:14]:
But what is a drainage? Right.

Michelle [00:16:16]:
So drainage.

Dr. John Kim [00:16:17]:
Let's just find what drainage is. The drainage pathway. It's not really talked about in a conventional allopathic medicine, but in a holistic sense of that, it deals with some of the key points. Dealing with your liver. That's number one, your overall bile. And then you're dealing with your kidneys. Your skin is also a trace pathways. And then.

Dr. John Kim [00:16:39]:
So anything related in your bowel, key five things. So one of the things that I have to explain to my clients about is a dirty bathtub, okay? So if you have a dirty bathtub and you actually have a clogged drain and you have all that dirty water in that bathtub, it does not make a difference. If you decide to scoop all that water out, your drain is still blocked, and then they have like, oh, that's not what that means. So if you're not pooping, well, if you're not sweating, well, okay, if you're constantly having to deal with sensitivity issues to certain chemicals in food, even food, for that matter. Right. And you constantly have to deal with skin breakouts. Let's just say if you try to take a supplement, for that matter, and you start breaking out, you have a drainage issues. And another thing that I asked patients to do is, do you smell totally? If you actively having to deal with bad breath, if you actively having bad body order, even skin rashes, for that matter.

Dr. John Kim [00:17:43]:
I had a client yesterday. She messaged me. She's part of my concierge program, and she done phenomenally well with her entire mold issues out of her three months. I mean, she made so much progress. I mean, this is this person that really puts the work together. But one of the things that I always ask is, during the follow up, how are you feeling? How's everything else? She's like, oh, everything's fine. And then yesterday, she messaged me, and she says that everything's okay. I have a rash going on under my armpit and right by my crotch area.

Dr. John Kim [00:18:14]:
I'm just like, that's fungal issues. So we still need to work on. Are you sweating correctly? That's the main thing I was asking about. And she's like, yeah, much better now. But I'm like, okay, that could be a reason why you really didn't sweat as much moisture. Dark areas. Right. You still have fungal overgrowth going on.

Dr. John Kim [00:18:33]:
We have to still work on the drainage issues. So all these things should be the basic aspect of detox. But what are people trying to do on instagram, all these social media pages sell their expensive detox kits that they believe or they trying to sell that everybody can use? Can Jane Smith, who doesn't sweat that well, can she tolerate a detox kit? Absolutely not.

Michelle [00:19:03]:
And what's the risk of that for her? Let's say someone does take things that are potent detoxers. What happens if you're detoxing but not draining? Let's say.

 

What happens if you're detoxing but not draining?

Dr. John Kim [00:19:11]:
Yeah, so there's a term called Herxheimer. So this coined by Doctor Herxheimer, basically is a die off reaction. It could be die off from the endotoxins that's released by pathogens or your entire body is basically dumping stuff out. I was about to say the s four stuff.

Michelle [00:19:33]:
You totally can on this podcast, by the way. It's very safe space to cursing.

Dr. John Kim [00:19:37]:
It's that new Jerseyness is coming out.

Michelle [00:19:39]:
Oh, yeah. Let it out, please. It's very safe to be cursing here, but anyways.

Dr. John Kim [00:19:45]:
But just basically dumping out, and then you're just overloaded, and then you have release of histamines, and as well as your liver is getting blocked, basically, and your bowel's not flowing correctly, it's basically all backed up. So same terminology going back to the entire dirty bathtub. Are you blocked? Can you drain things correctly? Even though it says drainage by repeating the work, but can you drain correctly? Can you let things out correctly? Right. Are you peeing? Well, that's another thing. People are not hydrating themselves correctly. And if they do hydrate, they're not replacing their electrolytes and minerals correctly either. All these people going into starnas, like, I'm detoxing. All right, great.

Dr. John Kim [00:20:32]:
What are you doing afterwards?

Michelle [00:20:34]:
Totally. And also, as we know, detox is a process that involves repackaging of toxins or hormones into different forms so that they can be easily drained out of the body. And when I think of detox in the, like, kind of old school way, we think of, like, juice cleanses. And I'm like, that's not. There's no, yes, maybe chlorophyll and other antioxidants have some capacity to support you throughout that process, but detox is actually a very highly nutrient demanding and energy demanding process. So when we think of detoxifying, I think a lot of people are actually thinking of drainage, like sweating and doing all those things, but they're not thinking of what nutrients does our liver need to actually go through phase one and phase two detox?

Dr. John Kim [00:21:20]:
Absolutely. And then when you talk about chlorophyll and then doing heavy metal detox after doing heavy metal detox, I mean, wifely. So I recommend that as well. But what are you replacing that with afterwards? Right. If you decide to just get the heavy metal out, the heavy bone is going to still come back in. But if you replace with the right minerals and balance things out, including fatty acid, we will talk about pretty soon. That's where you have a proper management of drainage as well as cell membrane support, mineral replenishing and things. That's going to really give the better foundational aspect in managing some of the complicated cases that we might be dealing with.

Dr. John Kim [00:22:01]:
A healthy cell membrane is very easy for you to detox and then your entire body basically lights up. Right. So especially dealing with mental fog issues, replacing the right amount of fatty acid can be very impactful for you to recover and function better.

Michelle [00:22:21]:
I know fatty acids is a huge part of your. The protocols that you might have with clients and which are all individualized, of course. So tell us a little bit about that and why fatty acids are so important and the structure of our cells is so important.

Why are fatty acids so important?

Dr. John Kim [00:22:33]:
Definitely. I mean, that's one of the things that's really a missing point, because I don't think a lot of clinicians understand that concept that you need to support the cell membrane, because if you look at the cell membrane itself is actually comprised of two lipid bilayers. Lipids. Right. So when you talk about lipids wise, if you end up having to utilize certain powerful binding agents, like cholestymer, for that matter, it doesn't have to rip that phospholipids off the cell membrane. If you end up having to utilize drugs like statins, phenofibrate, any of these anti cholesterol medications that also affect the integrity of the cell membrane, but at the same time, it affects the electron transport chain of the cell membrane itself. So if you think about the entirety of the Krebs cycle, things that we actually learned about chemistry, that gets impacted as well. You need the Krebs cycle in order for our cell membranes to work correctly, in order for us to making glutathione.

Dr. John Kim [00:23:36]:
Where does glutathione come from? It's basically an entire cascaded crep cycle that's actually needed. All these things are necessary, but what are we doing at this point in time? We're just looking at micronutrient testing and then just randomly throw things because you're deficient. What if I told you that deficiency comes from the fact that you have a root cause issue? That's because the cell membrane is so pissed poor and it cannot function that well as a result. That's where the deficiency comes in. That is where the symptoms come through. And so if you don't actually take care of the hierarchical issue dealing with the fatty acid imbalance, you're not going to be able to fix the entirety of the issue on the bottom. That's the reason why I end up having to put the entire discussion of doctor Robert Navia's work about cell danger response and why it's so important to looking at respecting the world of mitochondria. The cell membrane replace the right amount of fatty acids to calm the cell danger response, then, or at least together in supporting the drainage pathway and then really walking the patients through entire healing process.

Michelle [00:24:44]:
So you would even say someone just taking liposomal glutathione or something like that, it might not actually be enough because you might actually still have a cell membrane issue. Even just glutathione itself won't be enough. Evan?

Dr. John Kim [00:24:56]:
Glutathione actually is a great master antioxidant that I would recommend. A lot of. A lot of people. There's a keyword. A lot of people, not everybody.

Michelle [00:25:04]:
Right. Well, if people have drainage issues, by the way, and they get a massive herx reaction from taking it, it's also not going to help them too. Yeah, exactly. So, so that's. That is also something that when right now, what's very hot is talking about the mitochondria. It's very popular to talk about glutathione. People are taking it, you know, taking precursors, taking, you know, taking glutathione. But I think you bring another really important piece to this discussion, which is that we also have to focus on replacing those fatty acids, too.

Michelle [00:25:31]:
That's essential.

Dr. John Kim [00:25:33]:
Essential. But if you're looking at the entire glutathione, right, it's. It's a mast cell antioxidant. It does a lot of things in terms of helping to detox, help to support your immune system, all that, and we know this. But when you talk about glutathione, there's a place in time to add in glutathione and what not to. And especially when you're dealing with certain mycotoxin patients specifically talking about gliotoxin issues, you cannot be throwing glutathione at the picture because they already have sulfation problem. So those patients are going to act negatively with glutathione getting involved. And so you going to get an iv gluathon because you don't feel well.

Dr. John Kim [00:26:19]:
You're just causing more problem than anything else and causing more inflammation than anything. That's the reason why I don't recommend people just to listen to me or anyone else on Instagram. Oh, you know what that person recommended? Liposomal glutathione. Really? I'm like, is that rightful for you? Does that $75 $90 liposomal glutathione, does that make it sense that you need to take it at this point in time? It doesn't necessarily need it at that point in time. And you gotta have to add in things correctly. There's certain patients who are not able to tolerate glutathione, or at least sulfate based products. And so in certain cases, utilizing nacistine or using glycine may end up having to work better. You gotta think about how what glutathione is three glycine pieces put together.

Dr. John Kim [00:27:09]:
So utilizing glycine may end up having to do a better trick in helping them to manage these things and then support them correctly. But overall it's still fatty acid because let's just talk about methylation for that matter, everybody talks about MTHFR and that methylation process and all these things. If you look at the methylation process, you have to talk about methyl transfers choline pathway. The reason that you end up having to have that particular pathway is to create creatine and phosphatecholine. And that entire process as well is to recirculate homocysteine as well. But thing is, if you end up having to add in methylated b vitamins because that person actually has methylation issues, all you got to be doing is cranking a broken wheel and that person is going to be feeling like crap.

Dr John Kim [00:28:03]:
Exactly.

Dr. John Kim [00:28:04]:
And the reason that methylation process is basically forced to be blocked by the body and this is what the body does to prevent additional damage that goes on because of infection. Virus particles, for instance, end up having to hijack the methylation process for them to replicate inside the body. So what the body is going to do? So I shut that methylation process down. And that's a key piece that a lot of clinicians don't think about because they think that methylation is a good thing. It is a good thing, but when are you applying that? That's the reason why people get confused or they feel like trapped after, you know, I took all these methylated B vitamins and all these things, but I'm still getting sick. I'm not getting it better. Matter of fact, I got worse. Why? Because you're pushing.

Dr. John Kim [00:28:56]:
You're trying to negate the work the body's trying to do. Instead, you're just basically trying to push that through because you don't know much as a clinician and then trying to do so. And I'm speaking and humbly as I can because I made that mistake as well. But you have to really look at why methylation is so important and how that fits in and when to utilize it correctly. If you're dealing with an underlying toxicity, you cannot be cranking that methylation process after that.

Michelle [00:29:27]:
Which also, we know that B vitamins are essential in our body's detoxification. Like, we have a high need for B vitamins in liver detoxification. We know this.

Dr. John Kim [00:29:38]:
Yep.

Michelle [00:29:39]:
I just. I'm almost in tears because I just. I needed you to say what you just said about glutathione and B vitamins because I think that right now they're becoming so popular. And my clients are the people who have been to, like, a million practitioners before. They never. They, like, never feel better. They always feel worse. And then they're told, you're just not doing the protocol right.

Michelle [00:29:59]:
They're told, oh, no. It's just because, I don't know, your body's different, but it's really not. It's that in all of these things, when you're boosting, like, you're saying, the function of methylation or you're boosting the function of detoxification, you can't write a check that you can't cash, essentially. And I always say to my clients, I'm like, I don't want to give you glutathione right now because I don't want to instigate a war that we can't fight. So we need. You have to know, not only, and I know in medicine, there's always the phrase, like, the dose makes the poison. You have to know also. It's not only the dose makes the poison, it's what the condition of the body is to accept whatever the intervention is.

Michelle [00:30:33]:
And most people do look past that. Even functional practitioners, who I love so freaking much, still look past that. And I have very few clients who can come to me in the condition they're in and immediately accept huge doses of methylated B vitamins or accept glutathione right away. They wouldn't be coming to us after being to a bunch of practitioners. If those cookie cutter protocols worked for them and it's very obvious why they don't exactly.

Why can giving additional vitamin D cause more inflammation in that person?

Dr. John Kim [00:31:00]:
And then let's talk about vitamin D. That's another thing that I ended up having to get round about because everybody's like, oh, you know what? They have deficiency in vitamin D. Let's give them more.

Dr John Kim [00:31:11]:
Major barrier that I see with my clients is their ability to get comprehensive and functional lab testing.

Dr. John Kim [00:33:04]:
What if I told you giving additional vitamin D causes more inflammation in that person?

Michelle [00:33:09]:
Let's talk about it.

Dr. John Kim [00:33:10]:
Let's talk about it. So in a healthier response, vitamin D end up having to be increased activation of your entire immune system and there's many different functions that goes on. It also helps with the autophagy and creates an anti inflammatory effect. However, when you talk about a root cause aspect and there's an underlying issue which is causing cell danger response or let's just say you actually have mold toxins for that matter, or viral infections giving heavy amounts of vitamin D. Prolonged period of time. Short period of time is fine. Prolonged period of time. And I've seen clients that come in taking five to 10,000 units of vitamin D on a daily basis and then having to be told by the doctor saying that, hey, you're still not increasing your vitamin D level, or at least a 25 hydroxy is because of the fact that when you're dealing with a root cause issues where that particular viral or even Lyme disease or even mold toxicity is that addition of that actually increase the inactivation of 25 alpha hydroxy pathway, and it actually ended up having to cause more inflammation and it can lead into autoimmunity.

Dr. John Kim [00:34:27]:
Then you have an anti folate receptor antibodies as well. So that's causing more problem. So does giving more vitamin D make sense? Absolutely not. You have to looking at and ask the right question. Why isn't that vitamin D increasing? Is it the gut issue? Do they have an actual genetic snp? For instance? I have a genetic snp issues that I cannot absorb vitamin D correctly orally, so I have to go outside and get sun exposure. So I basically tell everybody that I'm a highly emotional houseplant. That's basically where I am and have to get it done. You get this vitamin D that way.

Dr. John Kim [00:35:06]:
Or is it the fact that you have actual mold issues or underlying Lyme disease that's progressed so much that actually puts a negative effect in a vitamin D receptor that you cannot absorb vitamin D correctly or at least converting it? So that's one. Number two is you should also looking at calcitriol level. If the calcitriol level is increasing while the vitamin D is decreasing, you have a big problem right there. Then when you're talking about levels of other things of that nature, like th 17 increasing, that's a perfect scenario for autoimmunity to occur. And you could measure these things ten years before actually happening. But are we talking about that? No. What do we talk about all the time? Instagram. Parasites.

Michelle [00:35:50]:
Why is everyone so obsessed with only parasites? Everyone's only talking about parasites on Instagram. It's such a thing. That's so interesting. You said that. I feel that way, too. Sibo and parasites are the two things that I feel like are the most talked about in the gut world. Is it because there's quantifiable tests for it so people feel comfortable talking about it more?

Dr. John Kim [00:36:13]:
Not really. There's a particular supplement company.

Michelle [00:36:17]:
Yes.

Dr. John Kim [00:36:18]:
Not going to mention any names again.

Michelle [00:36:20]:
Oh, that supplement company. Yes, that particular company. Like their supplements. But I know what you're saying, yes.

Dr. John Kim [00:36:26]:
Please believe me, I use them as well. But the thing is, there's a place and time to utilize it. And then when you orchestrate and adding into someone's therapy, for that matter. But thing is, that main focus was being taught is that parasites are the root of all problems, that parasites end up having to harbor mold toxins on top of Lyme, which is true. Okay, but when you actually have an underlying issue, for that matter, in terms of the mold, colonizing mold and suppressing the immune system. Right. Creates perfect environment for parasites to thrive.

Michelle [00:37:02]:
There's one step further back in the root cause, and I do. I want to talk about mycotoxins with you, too. Mold. I had mold toxicity, too. It's what a fun time, treating mold toxicity. It's very enjoyable because like you're saying, it's not a very straightforward protocol for anyone. There's not any two people who are going to get the same mold protocol because we don't know how the body reacts. And I.

How concerned should we be with mold and mold toxicity?

Michelle [00:37:25]:
I love that my doctor at the time said to me, she was like, if you have a herximer reaction for two months, it's no longer a Hercs reaction. It means what you're doing isn't working for you. It means that you need to change the course, basically. How concerned should we be with mold? Is it that everyone who encounters mold is going to have mold until they eradicate it and they have to take binders? I know. I obviously know that's a leading question because I know your opinion on this, too. But how serious can mold toxicity be? How concerned should we be? Let's talk about it.

Dr. John Kim [00:37:57]:
Mold. We got to understand why mold is there. Mold is part of our entire microbiome, and we keep forgetting to think about what our microbiome is. We're supposed to be evolving together, living together. Synergistically. Is that when you actually have an underlying issue of epigenetic problem in your body, especially cell membrane damages, we'll discuss what causes cell membrane damage later on. Cell membrane damages could be dealing with stress response for methylation. We talk about that as well.

Dr. John Kim [00:38:30]:
But all these things are part of an environment. If you talk about trauma, for that matter, that also impacts in terms of how your mitochondria is performing and as well as your cell membrane, all these things are impactful in that sense of it. But when you talk about the mold aspect of it, it is part of our ecosystem. However, there are certain molds that are very toxic. Mold in itself, as long as you don't provoke it. It's going to be everywhere. Right. But if you provoke actual mold, it's going to release mycotoxins.

Dr. John Kim [00:39:03]:
So mycotoxin is a mold toxin. And depending on where that particular mold toxins originated from, it's going to produce different things. So trichothecins is a type of rupamold that are very toxic and that can be very impactful within a damaged building. Wet building syndrome, that's what it's called and can be very harmful for your health. It can lead into cancer, DNA damages, as well as causing immune suppression, all that. And then there's different levels of mycotoxins as well. Talking about gliotoxins, another thing that I like to talk about is mycophenolic acid, NPA. There's a particular drug called mycophenolate or cellcept, then utilized in antitransplant medication, whether that derived that from mycotoxins, called mycophenolic acid.

Dr. John Kim [00:40:01]:
There's a particular popular drug also, statins. Statins of mycotoxin. So people don't realize that there's a particular mycotoxin derived from red rice, yeast. So all these things are utilized and there's a particular function in what it causes in the body. It can be very helpful. It can be such. But the thing is, it's that powerful of impacting how our entire cholesterol k is going to be forming our cell membrane. It can also cause nutrition depletion.

Dr. John Kim [00:40:34]:
It can actually alter the entire gut microbiome as well as our immune system. And impacting the liver and your bile as well. We talk about bile and liver goes hand to hand, especially when you try to get rid of mycotoxins. The mycotoxin, in terms of how it gets detoxed in the liver, follows the same process of hepatic recirculation, like estrogen metabolism. And so female clients, when they have to deal with high estrogen dominant symptoms and you're dealing with bold toxicity, for that matter, or we suspect that that person is dealing with yeast overgrowth, they can't detox etching correctly. So giving dib or all these things to help with the phase one, does that make sense? Partially. But what do you have to do? Need to support the gut microbiome. You need to support the bio, right.

Dr. John Kim [00:41:32]:
You need to make sure that person's pooping correctly. So all these things needs to be put together to. So you have an orchestrated effort in terms of getting that person corrected. So this is why mold can be very impactful in that sense of it. And you got to find out which type of mold as well. And that's one of the things that I tell patients about, that you need to spend the right amount of money, your resources, to order the right mycotoxin testing. I do not recommend utilizing antibody mold testing because it's just looking at the shadow in itself. It doesn't give you the actual specificity of the mold issue strain.

Dr John Kim [00:42:10]:
Yeah.

Dr. John Kim [00:42:10]:
Yep. You have to. Looking at the urine mycotoxin, there's a particular two tests I only recommend doing these days is real time labs and viral wellness.

Michelle [00:42:19]:
Totally. I think those are the only two that most of the doctors that I'm working with are recommending, generally used to. So with mold toxicity specifically, I think if you were finding out information on instagram about what to do if you had mold in your home, I think the first thing people would be told is, go get a bunch of binders and get the mold out of your body. Suck the mold out or something like that. Can we speak to why that approach might be not effective and or dangerous to just take binders?

Dr. John Kim [00:42:52]:
Yeah, I mean, first off, if you suspect that there's mold issue going on in the house, just don't assume it get tested. Right. Sounds like an STD testing.

Michelle [00:43:03]:
Exactly. Exactly. Don't get tested and then share. And then share your test results with all of your friends and family who've been around you in the home. Yes.

Dr. John Kim [00:43:12]:
But anyways, you need to get your house tested and find out what kind of mold it is, or at least mycotoxin you're dealing with in the house. And I don't recommend Ermi at all these days. Or at least to not just relying on Ermy, but you're also looking at surface testing because just relying on, erm, depending on the airflow where you are testing, that results can be completely skewed. So I don't really recommend that. And then on top of, it's not very sensitive to detect a lot of other things, so I don't really recommend it.

Michelle [00:43:41]:
So just actually get it tested outside of your body. And then if you're going to get mold testing inside of your body, learn the strain first before arbitrarily throwing a bunch of binders inside of your body.

Dr. John Kim [00:43:52]:
Definitely. I mean, there's different ways of handling it. I mean, obviously the reason that a lot of people even talking about getting their home tested because they don't feel well and they come in and then once we get the urinalysis done, they're dealing with mycotoxins. And then we have a discussion of, all right, these are potential places that you get exposed to either your work or your from home or anywhere that you end up having to spend more time on. Because even mycotoxin wise, just because you go into a moldy house does not mean that you're going to be having symptoms. Even if you're dealing with HLA genotype. Those are the particular patients who actually have more sensitivity dealing with mold issues. But that doesn't mean that you just go into a Moldy house coming out.

Dr. John Kim [00:44:37]:
Does that mean that you're going to have forever mold issues? You may have a little bit of allergy issues or other histamine response, but that's not going to cause a major issue there. So already that person's coming in that issues, then you get them tested in terms of your internal mold issues. Then if you're suspecting there's an exposure going in the house, get your home tested results, then get your home remediated. And during the remediation process, or even if you decide to spend the money in a remediation, because I have some clients who just decide to, you know what? I'm going to pack up and leave.

Michelle [00:45:11]:
That's what I did, by the way, I bounced. Yeah, right.

Dr. John Kim [00:45:13]:
So, like, especially in New York City, if you don't own your place, who does?

Michelle [00:45:18]:
Exactly.

Dr. John Kim [00:45:19]:
Exactly. So, I mean, you know, you gotta be just packing up and moving.

Michelle [00:45:24]:
I literally was packing my stuff. So there's still stuff that I have not touched. I was, like, wiping things out and putting them in plastic bins and going crazy. I will tell you, I lived in the apartment and was noticing my symptoms were more like histamine symptoms from the mold specifically. And it was very coincidental that, like, everyone got COVID at the same time. I was like, great. We're all histamine y and having a great time. But I walked into our fit.

Michelle [00:45:46]:
It was such a good apartment. That was the problem. And it was on Fifth Avenue. It was just like mid, it was like, the best location. It was a, it was an amazing apartment. So much so that I was, I lived in the mold for an extra year because I was like, I can't leave this apartment. Like, my, I can't leave a good, you can't leave a good New York City apartment. And I walked into the room and at one point, I walked in and my husband was, like, coughing up a lung.

Michelle [00:46:07]:
And he's a very healthy person generally. And like, very, I think he's had a cold, like, once our entire relationship, and I was like, it looks like we're in the movie interstellar. He can't breathe in this room anymore. It's time to go. And so we. We did leave, but then, you know, his body reacted completely differently than mine because I had all this, you know, life, you know, nervous system, dysregulation, all these things. And I was vegan for ten years before, so I lacked a lot of nutrients and a lot of support to move the mold out of my body, and he did not. So he really didn't have any mold toxicity.

Michelle [00:46:40]:
Aka, you can be in the exact same environment, but every single person's body is going to take those in or, like you said, provoke them or be provoking inside of your body in completely different ways depending on who you are. So it. Like you said, it's more important to actually see what your symptoms are and test and understand it, because it wasn't necessary for him to go through a full mold detox, whereby, for me, it was very necessary. Super unpleasant, by the way. Just didn't love it, obviously.

Dr. John Kim [00:47:09]:
Yeah, no, I had the same experience as well. So 2019. I suspect that there was a mold issue going on in the apartment that I was living at before. I used to own a house, but after dealing with heart attack, all the health issues, I was like, you know what? I'd rather just downsize everything and then live in a simple apartment and living at that. But I moved to a very older apartment in New Jersey. And, yeah, there was a. The moisture level at that place was 70%. Just humidity.

Dr. John Kim [00:47:42]:
Yeah, just moisture alone was 70%. If you go above 50, you have a harvest. Actually developing more growth and all these different other issues in the environment. But that was one aspect of it. And then when I got my microtoxin testing done, very high. I forget which one it was. High levels of aspergillus and penicillium and top of ochotoxin, we actually deal with. So those are the key issues.

Dr. John Kim [00:48:08]:
But then when we were. When I was actually looking at the apartment and getting tested, it was a fill book mold, especially the airdrop, because the entire air dock was just.

Michelle [00:48:20]:
It was my h vac, too. That's where it was a lot in the h vac.

Dr. John Kim [00:48:23]:
And it's not even just a standalone h vac just for your apartment. It's the entirety of the system. So trying to argue that with your landlord and trying to get that issue started.

Michelle [00:48:33]:
Oh, we lost, like, terribly, by the way. And my building was. That building was built in 2015. It was a new building, like it was a new super nice building and still had that issue. So it also can happen. It doesn't matter how like it can happen in many apartments, especially again, if you have those units. I also had an air doctor running all the time. It just, it really depends on you, the state you're in, how your body interacts with it.

Michelle [00:49:00]:
And so I would never recommend someone going through an at home mold detox protocol. If you suspect it, always work with a practitioner. It's very delicate and like I said before, picking a fight within the body that your body can't then wage can create to more symptoms. And a lot of the symptoms I see my clients experiencing from mold toxicity are really mast cell and histamine related over just like the allergy kind of symptoms they're experiencing. These full body symptoms, temperature regulation issues, brain fog, dizziness, even dysautonomia issues and things like that. Much more so than just the allergy issues. So this is something that I really recommend any form of detoxing too. I really would recommend working with a practitioner, and I know that that's a really unfair thing to say because it's not accessible for people.

 

What are some accessible ways to promote safe, healthy detox and drainage, without provoking huge issues within the body?

Michelle [00:49:51]:
So what I would like to know is, doctor John, can you let people know, like what are some accessible ways to just promote in a safe manner healthy detox and drainage, but without provoking huge issues within the body?

Dr. John Kim [00:50:07]:
That's a loaded question. Because depending on a yes, hard because depending on a patient, and I've had patients who are very sensitive and they end up having to be reacting to everything, including pc. When you give a phospholipid. Phospholipids because it is supposed to start to help mend the issue within the cell membrane and detoxing is that some people are just too sensitive in dealing with it. So going back to the same basic point is, are you testing correctly? And the second thing is, again, test. Don't guess you need to test. And then afterwards, what else can you do to help to alleviate the entire drainage pathway? You could detox correctly. You don't have to spend a lot of money on a detox protocol as long as you actually have the right labs and a plan.

Dr. John Kim [00:50:56]:
It's less expensive. Let me put that as a correct way. It'd be less expensive rather than trying to throw the entire monkey wrench at it and doing so. That's the reason why working with the right practitioner makes really sense. There are certain practitioners who utilize iv phospholipids and as well as using iv sodium phenylbutyrate and these clinicians are able to clear, mold toxin out within three to six months because they have a hyper focused testing modality. Right. There's very advanced labs like IGL, which is only available in Germany. But those MDs, functional mds, are able to order those testing, and then they could do iv work in the office and they could get you corrected within three to six months.

Dr. John Kim [00:51:40]:
But those are inaccessible a lot of times because, I mean, one physician that we work with, she's in Morristown, New Jersey, but she's only available at that point. But I have many patients who are living in, overseas and including throughout the United States who travel there to get it done. But again, that is a resource that you may not be dealing with because you have to move there for three to six months. You got to have to find a place to live. Aftercare, who's going to be taking care of you? All these things has to be all taken care of. Luckily, I was living literally 30 minutes away from her at that point in time, so it was easy. But a lot of people are not. So people who are not able to do that.

Dr. John Kim [00:52:25]:
I also give people virtual consultation, and I give them entire protocol to do it. The first thing I still do is the foundational care trace pathway. When you're eating well, pooping well, how are you taking care of yourself? Is your environment clean enough? Right. That is the core piece that you should really focus on even before, and.

Michelle [00:52:47]:
Those can be done at home before you're doing all this testing. I think that's involving things as simple as walking, dry brushing, being in sunlight, like the most basic essentials, eating foods that are as nourishing and regulating when it comes to our nervous system, blood sugar, all those things possible, too. And you can, those things can mostly be safely done, too, like things like walking and, you know, a little dry brushing, a little oil massage. These things are less forceful also than those supplements and things like that. But the first place to start is never, is those lifestyle modalities and is never those supplements because that's what you would tell people to do before they even come to you anyway, so they can get to work doing those things first.

Dr. John Kim [00:53:32]:
Absolutely. It doesn't cost that much. Right. That's basically the work that you have to do. And one thing that I posted on Instagram two days ago is that people think that just getting involved with a practitioner is going to just fix the entire problem. I could show you to the water, but you have to drink it. I'm not here to force you to the water. You need to take care of yourself.

Dr. John Kim [00:53:56]:
I'm there to help you coach you. I'm going to help you really design the right supplement protocol and all these things. But then that aspect in terms of you having the right proper sleep, you dry brushing on a daily basis, you doing all these things, that's on you, I can't be there for you. And that's the key missing piece.

Michelle [00:54:17]:
And no supplement or medication is a replacement for those movement practices, those breath work practices, that nervous system regulation piece. There is no replacement, by the way. I wish there was, but there's no way getting around what I always like to say, being human, like, you have to be human first before all of these things. So there are things you can do if you suspect these things, if there's financial accessibility issues for people, there are things you can start to do at home before you get all this testing, which can be extremely, profoundly helpful, and so are the protocols profoundly helpful. But there are things you can do at home that we just listed to just get things moving. And I think one thing that we both so firmly believe in and so strongly speak about is mineral repletion. Also making sure you're getting electrolytes in, because that is at the base of our cells, the base of every single function of our body. And that is something that we are all sorely depleted in.

Michelle [00:55:10]:
Many minerals, some of us have a little too much of one or the other, which you can also confirm with testing, of course, but making sure that you're, like you said, hydrating properly with minerals is essential for everyone.

Dr. John Kim [00:55:23]:
Absolutely. That's number one. And then also adding in the right amount of healthy fat, that's a key missing piece that a lot of people are lacking in. Right? Because what are we happening to do nowadays? And we go out to eat. And even if you decide to go to a very expensive restaurant in New York City, they still use canola oil or any of these regular, conventional oils are very inflammatory, and those end up having to be impactful in your cell membrane and damages it. Because what happens is that that particular hydrogenase oils, especially omega six for that matter, you need linoleic acid, omega six to help support the inner membrane of your cell membrane. But it's just that when you end up having to constantly overload your cell with hydrogenated oils, those are being impactful and causing fatty acid deficiency. Never alone it causes leaky cell membrane.

Dr. John Kim [00:56:14]:
Also taking too much omega three as well. Again, this is a great balance. Taking too much omega three can also cause leaky cell membrane as well. All these things about, oh, you got to eat fish oil or take fish oil all the time. I don't recommend that anymore. Before, when I was doing my fellowship training and that was a key thing, it was always recommended. Anyone that comes in with adrenal issues, a hormonal problem, put them on two capsules of omega three twice a day with food and that's what you should be doing. And if you have a person dealing with rheumatoid issues, pump it up to twelve capsules.

Dr. John Kim [00:56:50]:
That was the entire protocol that was taught.

Dr John Kim [00:56:52]:
Wow.

Dr. John Kim [00:56:53]:
But what was the reason that that rheumatoid issue improves after adding in twelve capsules? You're suppressing the immune system, right?

 

How do you personally grapple with the fact that we live in an environment that's kind of incongruent for health?

Michelle [00:57:01]:
And that's not the goal, is to suppress the immune system entirely. Right? Exactly. And I think so. I have a philosophical question for you. How do you grapple with the fact that we live kind of in an environment where we're going to encounter things, especially in America? Especially, I mean, everywhere in America. But like, you know, people go to Europe and they eat food that doesn't have glyphosate in it and they're not as sick. And people feel this way. Like, how do you personally like, grapple with the fact that we live in an environment that's kind of incongruent for health?

Dr. John Kim [00:57:36]:
That's a tough question to ask. I mean, to answer. The reason being is what can you tolerate, right. And the second thing is how much can you afford to spend money on all the clean, expensive food?

Michelle [00:57:55]:
We basically have to spend money to fight the thing that, like, we all acknowledge that there's problems, but you just have to like do the opposite of what is conventionally accepted, which is usually very expensive, like you're saying.

Dr. John Kim [00:58:07]:
Yeah, it is. So if that's the case, if the money, money is tight and all these things, I'm not saying to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on all these food that you think that is healthier. Many cases, even though they might be market as being organic, it's really not healthy. Sometimes packed with sugar. That was one of the key things that I learned. Even like I went to Whole food this morning, I got a. Because I was, I didn't get a chance to pack my lunch, so I picked up a salad and I was going out and they had a breakfast sandwich there. And on the breakfast sandwich, on the actual label it says biologically modified.

Michelle [00:58:48]:
Why did they say that? That's interesting.

Dr. John Kim [00:58:50]:
And this cost $7 for that breakfast sandwich.

Michelle [00:58:52]:
I was going to say a ten dollar breakfast sandwich that you literally could just get from a bodega for $3 for no reason. Like, just get it from the bodega instead. Exactly.

Dr. John Kim [00:59:00]:
I mean, I'm just like, what is this going on? So, again, this is like, just because you spend a lot of money in Whole foods doesn't mean that you're getting healthier food. Right? That's the thing. So this is what I would recommend doing. You gotta be very diligent about it. Right. When I was sick, and thank God I was sick, because if I did, if I was not sick back in 2015, I probably didn't shift my entire trajectory in terms of doing, doing functional medicine the way that I'm doing now is that when I was sick, those moments when I was sick at home, I didn't really go out. And so what I would do is I'll just go grocery shopping, bring it home, and I'll just meal plan the things that I'm going to be eating because I lack the energy. And Sunday was a rest day for me anyway.

Dr. John Kim [00:59:42]:
I just cooked a bunch of meals, and easy thing that I made was stew or chili or something on that line and just made it easier for me to eat. And then just add the healthier fat and then all the nutrients that you need to do it. So all these things can be controlled. As long as you're diligent and you have a plan to get your diet corrected. That's the key thing. If you don't have the resources, you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars going to whole foods or any of these places. You could still go to a farmer's market. You could still go to a local grocery.

Dr. John Kim [01:00:17]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just because you didn't buy a, you know, organic grass fed beef doesn't mean that the other beef is worse. It's. That's the thing.

Michelle [01:00:31]:
I had this client this morning who she's like, so she's from the Middle east, and she eats, like, the persian cucumbers as opposed to the larger cucumbers. But she goes to supermarket, and she's been very concerned about plastics and pfas, and she was like, but the persian cucumbers are always wrapped in the plastic. And I'm like, I totally and completely hear that as a legitimate concern, especially if it's sitting out in the sun or something like that. But I'm like, I almost think the benefits of you consuming the cultural food for you, that feels more, like, biologically appropriate for you and is safer for you and feels good might be worth it, but everything's a little bit of a negotiation you have to make. Like what's the price negotiation in your head? What's the chemical negotiation in your head? Because to be perfect all the time in this society is going to be hard. Like you're saying, unless you're literally going to a supermarket that doesn't use any plastics or paper and then you're also eating at home every single meal. So it's never going to be perfect. But like you're saying, just doing the best you can with what you can and at the same time not maybe getting too crazy about it because it's like you can't prevent 100% of things and you'll be able to tolerate some things more than you might be able to realize you can.

Dr. John Kim [01:01:41]:
Exactly. It's nuts. And all these health influencers end up having to, you know, this is the one thing that I got really annoyed about and this is just a story. Really interesting story is that I was at, I was at the recent. Not going to mention which seminar it was. I was at a seminar and I went out with a whole bunch of functional medicine providers like myself. Went out for lunch. So we were there and then we went out for, obviously we had an hour lunch break.

Dr. John Kim [01:02:09]:
We go out for lunch and we sit down there. Our lunch is still enough, but then we sit down and then all these practitioners end up having to ask the waiter, do you use canola oil in your cooking? Can you replace them with butter? I mean, for Christ's sake. I mean, the person's trying to do their job and do their work.

Michelle [01:02:29]:
They're literally working really hard. Like, please don't. You know what I mean? Exactly. And also, by the way, the answer is unless they specify yes, they are using that. So you have to make your calculated risk. Exactly. Is it worth it then for the sense of community to just be with your friends and eat this one meal? You know, that's. I think that's the give and take.

Michelle [01:02:47]:
And I think it's, it's easy to hear all this and get really afraid from even that nervous system perspective to feel threatened by our environments. So I think it's just do the best you can with what you can and it will, you'll be better for it and that's all. And that's all you can do.

Dr. John Kim [01:03:03]:
And it's fine. And I have a friend, good friend, she doesn't go out to eat, but she cooks her whole meal, right? And she's very happy with that. And she mainly spends money on getting the healthy ingredients and cooking at home and then she spends the other resources that she has to enjoy her life. And that's perfectly fine. There's no right or wrong way to do it. But do not stress yourself. Any listeners out there, do not, do not stress yourself that you need to have this perfect environment to heal. Perfect environment should be clean.

Dr. John Kim [01:03:35]:
House is one thing, but just because you need to spend an XYZ dollars to get the most high tech h vac or air doctor possible, no, not at all. Open up the window. That's the first thing you should be doing.

Michelle [01:03:49]:
Exactly. I thank you so much for that refreshing perspective. I also have to tell you this very funny thing, which is that a new hot thing on Instagram is that a lot of, I won't say the type of healthcare professionals, but they're a style of nutritionist who say, you don't need a detox, you have a liver and kidneys. Why would you need a detox? Which I always found very funny because obviously you're focused on optimizing your detox function and there's so many different components of it. I just wanted to add this to your list of vegan Karen's and your, your list of people to hate on social media, but not as humans. Just their one post.

Dr. John Kim [01:04:21]:
Yeah, I mean, this is the way that we were taught in school. That's the reason why.

Michelle [01:04:27]:
Right, exactly.

Dr. John Kim [01:04:28]:
And it doesn't give you the full information. Yeah, you have a kidney and liver, but then also this kidney and liver are very sensitive. Reason being is filled with mitochondria and those mitochondria are very sensitive to toxins. And if the mitochondria is not functioning well, you can't detox well. Exactly the same point goes back to what are we doing with the mitochondria and what are we doing with the cell membrane, still support it well with food, with the supplements you need especially, I recommend body bio pcm, balanced oil from them. And then if you can have the resources, or at least the practitioner you can work with, order that red blood cell fatty acid analysis. Really looking at what the imbalances are. Take care of yourself.

Dr. John Kim [01:05:09]:
Very well. But all in all, you don't have to spend a lot of money to be healthy.

Michelle [01:05:14]:
I love it. That's our final message. That's the best message we can possibly have. Doctor John, you're the freaking best. Thank you for coming on today, laughing with us, educating us so much. Where can people find you and how do people work with you?

 

Where can people find you and how do people work with you?

Dr. John Kim [01:05:27]:
Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me on instagram. Doctor John Farmdee Doctor John Farmdee. And my website is doctor kimwellness.com. Yep. And also I think I gave you a discount link for your followers to make an appointment. So I will send that over to you as well. Heavily discounted, $89 for 45 minutes.

Dr. John Kim [01:05:50]:
You know, consultation with me only give to only selected people. But for your listeners, I'd be happy to provide.

Michelle [01:05:56]:
You're acquired the Diet King. You're the best. Thank you so much.

Dr. John Kim [01:06:00]:
Thank you. Appreciate it.