Transcript 

Taking Our Health One Step Further with Healthillie

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:00:00]:
I am so excited to have Illie on today. You will have just heard an intro for this amazing woman, but I think you know her already. And if you are like me or anything like me, you will be ecstatic to learn from Illy today. So I'm so excited to have you here. My friend, my colleague. Welcome, HealthIllie.

Illie [00:00:19]:
Oh, my God. I'm so excited to be here, and I'm so happy that we've connected because it's been a pleasure, to say the least. You're a freaking Spitfire.

Michelle Shapiro [00:00:29]:
It really has been a pleasure. And this is something that people, I think need to know about us is that we learned not only that we're, of course, both New Yorkers, but that for some period of time, we may have lived like a mile away from each other and that illy lived in Queens, which, as if you're a listener of this podcast, you'll hear me mention queens a lot. So it means and northeast queens, where I'm from, which is very exciting. So for that reason, we have that hometown love and also, personality wise, fit right in, as you can see. And you will tell in just a moment. Illie, tell us about just, like, your personal health journey, because it's really important for the amazing business that you build for us to learn that about you. And I really want to hear it from you, so talk to us.

 

Tell us about your health journey

Illie [00:01:10]:
Yeah, totally. So, obviously, I was definitely not raised in a, like, crunchy household by any means. I, immigrant dad did not believe that anything could potentially be harmful. So I really was raised with, like, two parents who were just, like, fed is best, you know? And, like, there they came to, like, my dad came to America, like, really just trying to make ends meet. And my parents both worked, so I lived off of a lot of, like, lunchables and dunkaroos and dinosaur chicken nuggets. So that was, like, really the bulk of my childhood.

Michelle Shapiro [00:01:42]:
And.

Illie [00:01:43]:
But I was always in sports, so I was always seen as healthy because I was always thin and athletic. So I never had issues with food per se. Then once I hit pretty much college, I decided, like, I can't do sports anymore. Like, I can't keep up with college. And, you know, I'm doing track, I'm doing soccer. Like, I'm doing all the things. So that's when I got into the gym, and the gym was, like, my new outlet. And with the gym comes the gym junkie mindset where you're like, I need the protein, I need the pre workout, the creatine.

Illie [00:02:16]:
I need the whatever the hell. So we were doing back then. And it was like its own little kind of, like, cult almost, because it's like, now I have to take all these supplements to look this way. And I really, like, dove in headfirst when it came to that. And I became a personal trainer. Like, I really started taking this seriously, and that was my career pretty much for the next five years, whether it was full time or part time. Like, I was a personal trainer. And within two years, I really started to struggle with my overall health.

Illie [00:02:46]:
Like, I've never really had, like, I always had, like, preteen acne, but nothing that was this bad. Like, this became cystic and just really intense. And I had really chronic bloating. I started struggling with migraines. I had horrible pm's that would leave me, like, I have to call out of work pretty much, and all my symptoms just became overwhelming. And I'm like, I don't understand. Like, I eat well. I'm counting my calories, and I'm focused on my macros, and I.

Illie [00:03:15]:
So I kind of started to get a little more lenient, and I went into this more food freedom mindset. So I'm like, all right, maybe I'm just too strict. Maybe I'm doing things too intense and still kind of same thing. And I go to my gynecologist for my period. She's like, oh, we'll put you on birth control. I'm like, I don't want to do this. I'm trying to figure out what's wrong. So after kind of just being dismissed by my endocrinologist, my gynecologist, I went to a neurologist for my migraines.

Illie [00:03:40]:
I really went to everybody, my dermatologist, for my acne and my eczema, everything. And although I left with no real diagnosis because all my blood work was normal, they all sent me home with prescription medications. I was really confused. I was being prescribed something without having a diagnosis. And that was the first time where I think I just had my own aha moment. And that's really when I started to kind of look at my own biases that I was kind of raised with, because I never had someone who was telling me, like, don't eat this or don't eat that. Like, I never grew up with that. So all food Fitzhen, as long as it was kind of in moderation to some extent.

Illie [00:04:19]:
So I never struggled with food in that regard. And I really had to start looking at my choices because I'm like, I'm fit. Like, I fit the criteria of a healthy, visually healthy person in America. But why am I having these types of reactions and symptoms? And that's really when I started going headfirst into more holistic modalities, and I started looking at the ingredients that I'm consuming on a day to day basis. And I got really, when I started my health page, it was really focused on fitness, because most of my diet was protein powders and pre workout powders and bcaas and all these supplements that I was taking. And I just had a real wake up call when it came to this whole market that the fitness industry has created around. This is so healthy. Look how healthy we look.

Illie [00:05:16]:
Look how fit we are. And then we look at the ingredients that are in these marketed health products, and they are no better than, you know, that twinkie that you have on a shelf. Like, it's pretty much the same thing. That's really how I started getting into it, and that's why I started, like, reviewing fitness products. And that was the fitness industry really threw me into wellness, which is kind of crazy.

Michelle Shapiro [00:05:37]:
You know, it's something I've never asked you before, that I was thinking about. Washington. Do you think that the spike in your skin conditions or migraine symptom PM's symptoms, is it your belief that they escalated because you were ingesting all of these new products and it was toxic, or do you think it was just like, a long time coming and it just was gonna rear its head? I don't. This is speculative. Cause you can't know for sure. I'm just curious about how you feel about that.

Illie [00:06:05]:
Yeah, I mean, I think it was definitely. I mean, obviously a lot was going on. I just came out of being a teenager, you know, so that was the first thing. And I also was on birth control, and I got my period back six months after birth control, and I definitely struggled with that. And a couple years really went by of, like, feeling no real, like, relief. And I remember even cleaning up my diet completely and, like, really just only eating, like, the bare bones, bare minimum, like, trying to get in my micro greens and those things, like, really just trying to clean it up. But I still maintained this kind of mindset where, like, I can cheat on the weekends, I can go to a diner at 03:00 a.m. with my friends, drunk after the club, and, like, it's okay because during the week, I'm good, you know? So I still very much had this mindset, and I think that's what really continued my suffering.

Illie [00:07:02]:
Like, although I think it was like, a long time coming with, like, everything that I did throughout my life up until, like, my twenties, I do think these are things that persisted in my life. And I remember when I first started my page, it was all speculatory. Like, I didn't really know what was going on. So I was really just coming onto Instagram being like, all right, another doctor's appointment. Like, I have those videos of me coming out with my prescriptions being like, going to try this and going to try that. Like, I don't really know what's going on. And the only time I really started to get relief was when I really started cleaning up my act, if you will, and, like, really looking at the, all right, what's the quality of the food that I'm eating? What's the quality of the supplements I'm eating? So, although I don't really know for sure what was causing all of those things, it could definitely be a combination of things. I do know what healed it.

Illie [00:07:53]:
So I'm working backwards, if you will. We don't ever really know until it's done, and then we're like, oh, shit, that actually worked.

Michelle Shapiro [00:08:01]:
Totally. Yeah. It's more about pattern recognition. And that's what I think people misunderstand about functional nutrition a lot is we think it's like you take gluten out of your diet and you clean up your diet and then these things magically go away, or they magically came because of these processed foods. And it's really, like you said, a combination of a lot of different factors. I kind of was asking a leading question because I knew you were going to answer it in a specific way because I know how smart you are. So I was like, yes. That's basically what I needed people to hear, is that you, as a person who focuses on giving the cleanest, most beautiful products to people and recommendations on your shop, you also, like, really get that it's not just about cleaning up the products, it's the foundations.

Michelle Shapiro [00:08:43]:
You have to get your foundations locked in. The real eating, whole nutrition. You're one of the biggest advocates for eating real foods. As opposed to taking a supplement to get your nutrients in or anything like that. You are really food first, I would say. And that is what I love, because you're a clean product recommender, tester, everything. Like, you're really that, like one stop shop for people to understand what's in their products, but you also understand the presence and importance of just like lifelong history and diet and all these things, too. So I just want to commend you for that.

Michelle Shapiro [00:09:13]:
And I love that about you.

Illie [00:09:14]:
Yeah, thank you. That was always, like, when I started live healthily, it was really one of those things where I did it because I just didn't want to be an influencer. I'm like, I don't want to sit here with 500 affiliate links. So it was really just coming from that type of place. And then when I realized people trusted me because I really came from this innocent place of trying to just figure out what my health problems were, and then I being like, oh, shit. Like, that actually worked. What the hell? And then I just started diving into, like, really, is there, like, science behind this? Like, do other people, have people been looking into this? You know? And I think that's really where I started to put those puzzle pieces together. And to think that to this day, like, we really do not know much about how ultra processed foods are, like, affecting.

Illie [00:09:56]:
Like, we're starting to see things, you know, every single day, but it's really hard and you know this for sure, but, like, to mimic nutrition science from person to person is practically impossible. Like, we're so different in so many ways, and, like, one supplement can completely change somebody's whole trajectory of their life and then do absolutely nothing for the next person. So it's like, we really don't know. So that's why, although I love my supplements and I love all those things, like, I can never go to that first as somebody's cause or, like, cure, because, like, at the end of the day, like, the one thing that has been tried and true for since the beginning of time is, like, we've been eating real whole foods and that's it, you know?

Michelle Shapiro [00:10:40]:
Totally, totally. And, like, aligning ourselves with the sun and, like, being human and all these things that we, like, don't do the human stuff for sure. Yeah. There's two pieces to this conversation that I always want to have with you. One is literally about the products themselves. When we're looking at skincare, what is those first few things that you're like, I don't want to see this ingredient. This is something I want to look out for. And then what is the social landscape around all of this? Right? We have not only, as we've talked about this podcast so many times, do we have kind of the nutrition world that's divided, and this is something that Ellie and I message about near constantly.

Michelle Shapiro [00:11:15]:
The nutrition world being divided into these, like, very intuitive eating dietitians. And then there's the more holistic, crunchy, everything has to be natural elimination diets, gluten free everything kind of people and practitioners. And I believe very much that Illie and I both fit somewhere in the middle of that. And so theres this also other kind of community, which they may not be dieticians, they may not even be nutritionists, but theres this kind of clean, natural community that can be really harsh on people for using chemicals. So we want to strike that middle ground from a social context perspective, too. So skin is something you talk about often when it comes to the actual products we're using on our skin. Where did you start and where have you ended up in ways of, like, I would never put this on my skin at this point, but when I first started, I was like, oh, I really don't want that. Tell me about your skin journey a little bit and what you think.

 

Where did you start with your skincare and where have you ended up as far as products you use on your skin?

Illie [00:12:07]:
Yeah, I mean, especially with someone that struggles with acne. I used to think that, like, an acne safe product was just like, that's just really like a marketing term for me in a lot of ways because I was using things that were like, this is acne safe. And although it wouldn't, like, break me out, it was just masking, like, what the actual problem is. And sometimes those, those specific products contain even more chemicals because they have to start targeting the acne, you know, and sometimes acne, you don't really know what it can be causing it. So sometimes they put things to target, the hormonal side, the bacterial side. They're just kind of just trying to make this product work. And then, you know, like, I get questions all the time on my website, like, what are acne safe products? I'm like, well, technically, because these don't contain any toxic, potentially irritating ingredients, they're technically really all safe for acne. So that's kind of when I started realizing, like, clean, cleaner beauty in general, if you know what to look out for, is just safer for your skin overall.

Illie [00:13:09]:
Like, I had eczema. So, like, everything that I was using back then had to be, like, eczema safe. And then I started to realize that a lot of these, like, eczema safe things still contain things like fragrance, which can irritate eczema. So I'm like, what is going on here? But then they kind of try to counteract that with these very harsh, almost like pharmaceutical like chemicals to help target the eczema. So it's like, as soon as you stop taking it, it's going to come right back. So the biggest thing that I always look out for in any type of product really is like that very ambiguous fragrance, because we know that it can contain hundreds of thousands of chemicals and we don't really know what that is. And not all fragrance is necessarily bad. Like, we have amazing brands that are really coming out with these isolated fragrances that are, like, coming directly from the plants and they're not mixing them with all these different other chemicals.

Illie [00:14:01]:
Like, they're just isolations, which are great. But the problem is with a lot of brands is they won't disclose how they're coming up with it. So it could be made in a lab or it can be coming from a plant extract, and we really just don't know. So I think that's the issue, too, that we kind of see on both ends of the spectrum where they're like, just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it's harmful. And I'm like, well, I'm not going to guess that it's not harmful either, you know? Like, I'm not going to guess something safe.

Michelle Shapiro [00:14:26]:
It's literally guilty until proven innocent.

Illie [00:14:28]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I feel like the science based community really is, like, the opposite. They're like, well, it's safe until it's proven unsafe. And I'm like, yeah, like, I'm not gonna. Just, like, I was just saying, like, you're not. I'm not gonna tell you. Would you like to put your hand in this box and then not tell you what's in it? You know, it's the same exact concept. And I feel like I don't like to take my health for granted because I've been in a position where my health was, like, taking a toll on my relationships, my life, my career, everything.

Illie [00:15:01]:
So. And some people are a little more risque when it comes to them. Like, yeah, I'll try it. And then this is when now we have, like, everybody freaking out over tampons because they're like, oh, my God, it's toxic. How come no one told me? And you're like, I've been trying to tell you, but you're listening to these, you know, guys in their basement.

Michelle Shapiro [00:15:21]:
So this is really interesting, because this concept of guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty when it comes to products is, I think we've taken for granted in the past, however, at least in our lifetimes, that a lot of the products that we assumed would not have health consequences, even the health, quote, unquote healthy ones, the organic ones and all that, actually do have potential health consequences. And we've kind of been. I always think about this with cell phones, too. We're kind of guinea pigs on a lot of this because it could not have an impact. Some of these at the dosage for ten years when it comes to cell phones. Like our generation is going to be the real guinea pigs because we have had our phones glued in our hands since we were nine or something. And maybe younger for you because you're a little younger than me. It literally could have been like, my.

Illie [00:16:08]:
Parents did not let me have shit, so.

Michelle Shapiro [00:16:10]:
Oh, actually you're albanian. It's completely eastern european household rule. Not a shot. Exactly. You're like, I just got a phone last week, Michelle. I don't, I haven't had one. This will. But I think the context around it is we should be questioning things.

Michelle Shapiro [00:16:25]:
Not to a point where it makes us unwell, not to a point where it's constantly dysregulating, not to a point where we're making decisions out of fear. But it's okay and awesome potentially to empower ourselves and to understand that if something is really dense in chemicals that are lab synthesized, it is possible that there's going to be a negative health impact. It's not necessarily that it's going to, but we have to assume that there's a higher probability. Is that how you kind of view things too?

Illie [00:16:57]:
Yeah, I mean, for me it's weird because the wellness industry is so torn. And I'll give a personal example that had just happened in real time. So, like, I, I go to a lot of events, so I usually don't like to always buy things fast fashion. But, girl, in this economy, ain't nobody trying to buy $2300 dresses every single weekend. Like, I have a wedding to go to this weekend. And so I did like a little Shein haul where I just bought a couple dresses and people are like, shane's toxic. How dare you? I can't believe this. Like, literally clutching their pearls, having an aneurysm over the fact that I ordered something off of Shein.

Illie [00:17:34]:
And I have, I can see where people are coming from because people see headlines and they automatically go, that's the brand. That's the brand that's toxic. Right? So, and I know this from experience, just because as somebody who looks at headlines all the time and I can read between the lines, when somebody's like, oh, Tampax is determined toxic. People just think, that's Tampax. They don't think like, okay, well, what's in Tampax that can be found in other tampons that could potentially be toxic? So for example, when Shein was being, I think somebody did a study on Shein and said Shein has toxic PFAS in their. In their clothing. I'm like, okay, cool. If you actually read the article, one, they tested their, like, rain jackets, and that's Pacific plastic.

Illie [00:18:23]:
It's plastic, right. In PFAS. But that's just not. That's not just Shein. That's every. Every synthetic clothing company ever. So unless you're making your clothing from scratch and you know that you're getting 100% cotton and even 100% cotton, because as we've seen with the tampons, 100% organic cotton is still contaminated with PFAS because it's coming from the soil, so we're not free from chemicals. So for people to have, like, their panties in a bunch just tells me the state of, like, where people are at right now when it comes to seeing headlines.

Illie [00:18:59]:
And then you have a bunch of influencers, right? And, like, we're all to blame, because we all try to make content about these things. And unfortunately, if you listen to one person, they're going to be like, it's completely fine. You listen to another person, they say it's completely toxic. For me. I wear, like, athletic gear, which is always, almost all the time synthetic. I know I'm probably getting PFAS in my system right now. Do I think, like, if I die from this, please write it on my tombstone? But, like, I highly doubt that all the foundational things I do in my life, pfas will be my demise. You know what I'm saying? Like, I.

Illie [00:19:37]:
That's just not how I view my life. Where we don't go this up in arms for wellness influencers who drink every weekend or who do fill their face up with Botox. Like, we don't do that, right? Because there hasn't been this, like, hallmark title or article that's come out about how toxic it is. Right?

Michelle Shapiro [00:19:56]:
I think people would ignore it, too, because they want.

Illie [00:19:58]:
Yeah, yeah. Or that. But, like, people see Shein and they think Shein is the only one, or they still remember when it happened with Lululemon, they think, oh, it's only Lululemon. No. If you look at what the products are, it'll happen across the board. So, for me, I'm not gonna start becoming a nudist because I can't trust any clothing. I mean, if people want that, I'll give the people what they want. But, you know, it's just one of those things where you're like, guys, calm down.

Illie [00:20:21]:
You know? Like, if I'm not worried about it as someone who does do this for a living, like, don't worry for me. Like, I totally appreciate it, but yeah, people unfortunately will see a headline and then they just want the brand. They're like, what's the brand? Like, tell me the brand. It's like, no, you have to start looking, turning that label over and looking at what it is that so we can look for this across the board. So yeah, it really comes down to like, where is, where is PFAS, for example? I'm going to just use it as an example on the hierarchy of your health. You know, like where is that? Because if it's, you're in your foundation, we, you're, that's where you're leading with fear. You know, like foundation for me is making sure I'm getting sunlight, making sure I'm drinking enough water with, with minerals. Like for me actually having filtered water is way lower, like on my foundational, you know, like things that I do every day than toxic, you know, clothing, you know, and that's just me.

Illie [00:21:19]:
And I think everybody needs to start figuring out like what theirs, you know.

Michelle Shapiro [00:21:22]:
What's your thing looks like. I love the health pyramid idea too. And I think also someone who is very chronically ill as like, let's say someone who's working with, you know, myself or my team, what their health pyramid's gonna look like. It might be that if someone who has mcas, for instance, goes into an airport and they have a week long flare because of the smell of the chemicals there, like chemical avoidance might be the top, top tier priority, right. If you're looking to get like, you know, improvements in your skin, the skincare products that you use may be high on the list, but also like hydrating, like you said, might be also really high on the list. So I think we have to, like you said, kind of figure out where am I going with my health. You know, a lot of times, again, there's this like, brand of, we call them the science based crew or, you know, all of us shine space. But it's that you have to have one specific study that justifies one specific idea or mechanism.

Michelle Shapiro [00:22:20]:
They'll say something like, everything is a chemical, or they'll say it's okay for people to consume this. It was. Here's the flaw in the study. And the question is not as if it's okay, it's, is it okay for that specific person? So I think that's the question we should all be asking ourselves. What's okay for me? Like, for instance, if I don't have electrolytes, some minerals, and chill. If I don't have some electrolytes on a daily basis, because I have pots, like, I'm going to really not feel well. Right? So for me, it's an absolute non negotiable. I have chronically low blood pressure.

Michelle Shapiro [00:22:51]:
I have to do that. I have low blood volume. I absolutely have to do that. Right. It's really important for me. But something like you said, where I have never had a skin problem, I hate saying it, but I have never had a skin problem. Right. So though I've had weight.

Michelle Shapiro [00:23:04]:
Stop. Like, everyone has their own thing, right? So for me, I wear, like, toxic face makeup. Like, it is definitely toxic. I'm sure it is. It has the ability to cause toxic issues down the line. But it's not, like, top of my list for me. And I can only do, like you said, I got to filter my water, I got to drink my mineral. I have 45 health tasks I have to do.

Michelle Shapiro [00:23:22]:
But in the morning, to be a person and combat the environment we live in, I just. It's a little choose your battles situation. For me, the cat eye is very brand important for me. It's what I wear on my face every day. I need, like, a dirty sephora eyeliner, and it's got to go right into my eye, you know? And that's just how it's going to go. I think we care about things when we have to, and we shouldn't care about them until we have to. Now, when it comes to the skin stuff, when it comes to these, are there literal, like, words you look for in the label, or do you just go with trusted brands? How would someone even start, like, knowing what products to use or not? I know I heard you say fragrances are something to avoid right off the bat, for sure. Tell me a little more about, like, how you would even go about that.

 

How can someone start knowing what skincare products to use or not use?

Illie [00:24:02]:
Yeah. So when it comes to toxic, like, skincare products, and like you said, it's one of those things where, yeah, you have to create your own hierarchy of, like, what things are. And I think the part that a lot of people miss is, like, trusting themselves and, like, being honest with themselves, because there's a lot of people who justify their diet Coke every single day. And you really have to sit down and ask yourself, is that really helping you on a day to day basis? If every time you see a product for bloating, you're like, wait, I need that because I'm so bloated. We have to start asking, being a little honest with ourselves when it comes to our habits and if they're actually serving us. I'm very open to never ordering another toxic pair of clothing if, like, when I do my heavy metal mineral analysis once a year and I start seeing that my levels are high, I've never seen that yet. So that's why I think, like, my drainage pathways are good. Like, all my foundational things are working so that, you know, heavy metals and my, you know, physical products aren't affecting me.

Illie [00:25:04]:
Maybe they would. Someone who has poor drainage pathways. Like, I'm very on top of my health, so, like, and also, like, I have, like, a non, like, I am in a, like. Like, a touch and go relationship with a lot of shit in my life. Like, I will give up anything if I think it's affecting my health. And I just don't think enough people are, like, willing to do that because they have such emotional relationships with things that they have, you know? So for me, I'm like, okay, cool. If I have to find another product, I will. Like, it's no big deal, but like I said, I haven't seen any issues when I do my htMa's every year, like, I do that.

Illie [00:25:37]:
It's like, a yearly, like, thing for me. And I've never seen my metals, like, really go up or, like, have any type of accumulation. And if I sensed it, I would stop it. And it's that simple for me, you know?

Michelle Shapiro [00:25:48]:
That's really smart. Yeah, that's a really smart way of doing it.

Illie [00:25:51]:
I'll be honest with myself. Like, I've seen other things come up for me, and I'm like, okay, immediately got. That's why water and minerals has been so important, because I lack those. So it's just like, I just do what I got to do.

Michelle Shapiro [00:26:01]:
I have to. I just have to double down on what you just said, and it's so important, I think monitoring your symptoms and your signs. So what's going on with your vital signs is going on with your lab tests, what's going on with the actual experiences you're having? And basing what you need to cut down on or focus on on that is extremely intuitive. I think once people hear, oh, this period underwear, this tampon causes this issue, I think they then think this is related to me. And I think you need to focus. Everyone needs to focus on what is related to them and most helpful for them, because I really do believe we have to make compromises, unfortunately, to exist in America. If it is very hard for someone to exist in America chemically, which, by the way, there's many of us, it's very hard to exist in. You might have to, again, like, be that person who's wearing a face mask at the airport.

Michelle Shapiro [00:26:51]:
You might have to be that person who's taking a crap ton of antihistamines before you go. That, like, there are certain people whose bodies become incongruent with the environment, and that is real. But I think the goal should actually be to get away with as much as you can. If anything, I honestly think you should try to be able to get away with what you can until, like you said, illy, it shows up in your labs. Then you're like, all right, I'm not getting away with Sheen anymore. Now I have to focus on this. You know, a lot of my clients come to me and they're like, should I be cutting this out? Should I be taking this out? Should I be focusing on this? And I'm like, not until we have to. And then let's see.

Michelle Shapiro [00:27:24]:
Because I think that making our lives as limited as possible is also not really a robust solution for many people who do have to exist in society. Because many people have to go to offices, right? They have to be around other perfumes and people and what they're doing. We don't have full control of our environment. So if we can control what we can control, like a water filter or something like that, like you're saying, and we take action where we can, but the goal is not to cut everything out to start with. That's not. That would not be my goal. And I don't think your goal for people either.

Illie [00:27:53]:
And I also remind people all the time, like, I think worrying about heavy metals and lead and everything is like, level, like, 87. Like, why are we starting a video game at level 87? Level one is making sure you're sleeping. You know, like, if you're not sleeping well, we probably shouldn't be worrying about our Stanley cups, you know? So it's just like, let's pick a struggle here, because. And that's the issue that I have. People don't realize, like, if you follow me today, you don't realize, I've been in a health journey for five years. If you guys followed me five years ago, you would see the crazy shit that I was still doing because I was on level one. You know, level one was, like, making sure I'm just, like, exercising, you know, like, getting in my steps. And then I was still consuming a lot of other toxic shit, and I was still using all different types of makeup brands, and I was doing, like, purple freaking eyeshadow.

Illie [00:28:45]:
Up to my eyebrows like every single day because I worked as like a freaking hostess. Like people forget the things that I was doing because I had to start at level one where now I'm like probably at like level, I don't know, 60 maybe. Like I'm just making up fucking numbers here. But like that's what people forget. Level hundred is no cell phone. Living in the woods, somewhere in the Adirondack, that's level 100 for me. Like that's where I see my scale run. Like, I'm probably never going to reach that.

Illie [00:29:13]:
Like, I don't see my little ass living in the freaking woods chopping wood. I just don't see it. I'm just not doing it. You know, those are the things. But everybody's at a different level. So for people to see a headline and then start panicking over, like, my God, there's lead in everything. There's people that dm me, they're like, I just ordered a lead tester so I could test my house with lead. I'm like, what is that doing for you besides causing anxiety? Like, what is that doing for you? You know? So yeah, I do think people are.

Illie [00:29:41]:
Social media tries to get you at that level quicker than you're ready for and then that's what causes this fear mongering and that anxiety. Because then I think the science based people and I understand where they're coming from, truly, because they probably get these DM's of people frantic and then they have to try to put the fire out. But I don't think it's about putting the fire out completely. I think it's just being like, you need to figure out, is this fire in your yard or is it down the block? How much of a problem is this fire right now?

Michelle Shapiro [00:30:12]:
I think this also just brings me this bigger conversation that you are just blowing my mind with, which is in general every battle of the earth, we can't fight at once, right? So there's going to be some people who are going to help us with the food system. There's going to be some people who are going to help us with the pharmaceutical system. We can't take on. If we were to really conceive of every environmental toxicant, every food toxicant, everything at once, we would be very scared to be inside of our homes and outside of our homes, right? There would be no safe place, especially in this country. There would be nowhere to go. You have to find the biggest fish to fry. You have to find it could really be something like mold and that has to be your mission, and it has to be your thing where you're eradicating it, because that's what's making you sick. But no matter what it is, you have to focus on the foundations first.

Michelle Shapiro [00:31:03]:
And I love this idea of the levels and that when you're looking at someone like a functional medicine doctor who's been in practice for 20 years, they're like, you have to focus on this chemical because this one thing. And by the way, I also think that's not really functional medicine anyway. You know, that's. That's a different conversation I've had in this podcast where you are laser focused on only one thing for one population and not looking at the bigger picture of what's going on. But what people are seeing on social media is people who have been, like you said, at a level 70 for ten years already. So they're not worried about those basics. And I think that's what gets lost in podcasting and online, too. Why people aren't getting information from online, they're just getting fear, is because they're nothing seeing, like, is this for me, or do I need to do way more before I start caring about this? You almost have to do the basics before you can even care about that because we don't have the space to care about it all at once.

Michelle Shapiro [00:31:55]:
I just don't think we do.

Illie [00:31:56]:
Yeah, and I get it, too. I know I'm on my own path. I don't fall into a lot of this stuff, but I get. I do get very aggravated when people come on here and tell people that it's not an issue because I view everything as a version of informed consent. Like, there's a lot of things that, like, and like you said, like, there's things that we all do that we know are toxic. But I'm informed about it and I'm not oblivious to it, but it is in the back of my mind, like, okay, this is something I'm going to. If new symptoms arise, I'm going to obviously think about, like, shit, I really have been wearing this a lot, you know, like, that's all it is. Like, it's a little nugget in the back of my mind of informed consent.

Illie [00:32:33]:
And I feel like a lot of these science, very science like, based accounts don't allow people to have that type of consent. They just go, everything is safe. Okay, like, what are you going to tell somebody who's been suffering for years and they have an inkling that could, it could be, I don't know, mold in their house, and they're like, there's no such thing. Mold's not a problem, and blah, blah, blah. Like, parasites aren't a problem, or, like, nothing's a problem. Everything's fine until it's not. And I try to get people so that they don't have to figure out that it's not that now it's a problem, you know? Like, we try to get people before that happens and heal people before they end up in the chronically ill community, and then they can't get out because now they just have to make sure their symptoms aren't horrible versus, like, we can try to reverse everything. But then there does come a point where it's almost a little bit too late.

Illie [00:33:19]:
Like, we have people who are already in their thirties getting diagnosed with colon cancer. Like, now what do you do? You know, people getting their gallbladder removed, all these organs removed, and, like, now it's too late, you know, so I don't think it's bad for people to say, hey, this could be toxic. And unfortunately, the responsibility falls on us as creators versus people being able to just hold information without panicking. To be honest, I'm always like, that's a you problem. Like, I'm here to show information. If everyone you follow is causing you anxiety and you're panicking, that's something you need to assess.

 

The importance of defining what is toxic and not toxic, without fear mongering

Michelle Shapiro [00:34:03]:
You need to actually unfollow them realistically. Yeah. I don't feel that that information is usually usable at all unless people, it's applying to them and their level. The levels is a system that I'm using, by the way. I love theories like this. I love that everyone's at a different level of caring and priority for their health. I think that's really important. And I think the evidence based bullies are people who are very likely to say, this study shows that this is very safe.

Michelle Shapiro [00:34:29]:
And I think maybe their goal is to help people to not feel afraid of things. But at the same time, what I think is missed is that the reason people are looking for health information is because they are sick. So they don't really want to be coddled or say, this one study says it's okay. They literally want help. I would say social media is not a place to get help, though. And it's very hard for me to say that because I do. You know, part of my business is facing on social media hoping. But I don't post any specific studies.

Michelle Shapiro [00:35:02]:
I never post specific things because I know how triggering it is. That's why every damn word I say in social media, I'm so careful about because I don't know who I'm speaking to and who's picking that up and looking for help. So while it's nice that people are saying these things are safe. Cause this one study says they're safe, people are asking smart questions about their health, and they're wondering why the heck they're so sick, and they want to find some answers. I think the accounts like yours, are amazing. I think any account that focuses on the foundations first, and we'll say to you, green powders can be awesome, or they can be totally not awesome, and still you have to focus on nutrition first. That's the kind of account that I'm always looking to, you know, connect with and always looking for my clients to look at, because that's really the. I don't know, the most, again, human approach.

Michelle Shapiro [00:35:49]:
The most. The approach is going to help people the most, whereby if you're saying everything's fine or you're saying everything's not fine when it comes to chemicals or anything, I don't think it helps anyone. I think there has to be a. Here's the way we look at it, and here's how we frame it for you. We have to do one thing, too, Ellie. We have to define what we think toxic or toxin is in the context we use it on social media versus how it's seen. So when people see the word toxin, the big fight is that a toxin has to cause immediate illness. That's how, you know, something is a toxin.

Michelle Shapiro [00:36:23]:
When we say something can be toxic, it means it has the capacity or potential to cause harm. Huge difference between something that's a high dose toxin and something that has the potential to cause harm and maybe toxic. Is that how you view those words? I feel like, contextually, that's kind of how you use them versus how I see them online, which is like, you know, pfas are not toxic because they're not toxins. And it's like, well, you don't know the dose, you don't know the amount of time, and you don't know the vessel that those pfas are going into. Do they have already disruption in their endocrine system? Tell us about how you feel about this toxic argument that we see.

Illie [00:37:00]:
Yeah, I mean, I always tell people I live a low tox lifestyle. Like, there's no such thing as no tox. Right. Because I can't control the air I breathe. I can't control how my house was built. Like, people don't. I can't control where they put freaking, you know, Wi Fi towers. Like, I can't.

Illie [00:37:14]:
Those shit I just can't control. So I like to live a low tox life. Like, what I can control, I try, but I'm not, like, crazy about it, obviously. Just order chi and, like, relax. So it's just one of those things where I'm like, you have to figure out what is a toxin for you versus not. I do think that there are things that are inherently toxic. I like to be very clear with my words. Like, when people are like, oh, you can't eat processed foods.

Illie [00:37:39]:
I'm like, we're talking about ultra processed foods. Because processed foods are like a smoothie and ultra processed food is like a Twinkie. Those are two very different things, you know? So I'm very clear with my words. So I always try to say, like, something is potentially a toxin or potentially toxic. Right. Because that's just how I like to see things. Because I don't think obviously one thing will kill you. Like, if you use one perfume, is that going to kill you? No.

Illie [00:38:07]:
The issue that I think a lot of these places talk about, or like these, you know, evidence based bullies talk about is they say the dose makes the poison. Right. Cool. Like, meaning, like, if you drink bleach, you'll die, right? Maybe if you drink a drop of bleach every single day, you won't die, but maybe in five years you will. Like, we don't know to the extent, right. And they try to relate the same very outdated ideology to our everyday products. The average woman puts on, what, seven, eight, nine products on their body in the morning, not counting makeup. There could be a safe dose in each of those products so they can pass FDA.

Illie [00:38:53]:
FDA regulation and make it to store shelves. But never in the history of science has your specific skincare routine been tested as a conglomerate for you or for society. So we have no idea if we've exceeded that safe dose, because if there's one dose of this in one product and then one dose of that in one product, well, now we have two doses of that. This is just simple mathematic. So how they don't see that and they go, aspartame isn't a problem because the dose makes the poison. You would have to consume a gallon of Pepsi Cola a day to reach this thing, not realizing that aspartame, sucralose, aceslapy and potassium are found in everything from yogurts to coffee creamer to, like, literally anything these days. So it's like we're slowly exceeding that safe dose on a day to day basis. And that's the part that I think they missed.

Illie [00:39:51]:
So I think the word toxin and toxic are very blurred lines right now. With current food science and just overall toxicology in general, I think those lines have been completely blurred because we have no idea how much we're actually putting on our skin at all or in our bodies.

Michelle Shapiro [00:40:11]:
And also, the question comes in my head, is not, is this safe for me from a product standpoint? Is this product going to kill me? The question is, is this product going to slowly sicken me, or is this product something that is making me sick? Without me realizing, again, I'm not looking for trouble, or asking my clients to look for trouble and say, this is making me sick, this is making me sick. But if you are sick and you are looking for answers, it's okay to take inventory of the different things that we're intaking and seeing. Where does this lie on my priority list? You know, it's always, no, this is not going to kill you. I don't care if it's going to kill me. I care if someone's wearing perfume next to me and my client has such a bad immune response to that perfume that they're sick for three weeks. That's what I care about. I don't think they're going to die from the perfume. That's not my consideration.

Michelle Shapiro [00:40:59]:
My consideration is, are they going to be so sick?

Illie [00:41:02]:
Like, why is death is the barometer?

Michelle Shapiro [00:41:05]:
It's like, no, you're not going to be projectile vomiting from this level of drinking bleach. But it's like, but is it kind of killing my organs from the inside in the long term? Like, that's. That's what I'm interested in. Yeah.

Illie [00:41:16]:
And I think the other thing, too, with the science based community is, for example, I'll be like, if you're looking for a ready made protein shake, you know that you just get at the store and it says carrageenan on it. And Carrageenan, we know, has been a potential carcinogen. It can really affect the gut lining. And you have another person saying, there's no science to support that carrageenan is a potential toxin, blah, blah. It is safe, blah, blah, blah. If someone now have a client or someone come to you or myself and they go, you know, I've really been having gut problems. I don't know what it could be. I've been told, like, I had someone, a dietitian, assess my diet, and they said all the products I use are good.

Illie [00:41:51]:
I'm eating things in moderation. I don't really have this shake all the time, but I have it moderately like I like as a pick me up. You and I, since we know what to look out for, we can be like, let me see what's in that shake. Because me, let's just try avoiding the shake for three weeks. Let's just try because that is like, like you mentioned, nothing bad is going to happen. If it's low risk.

Michelle Shapiro [00:42:12]:
You're not. You're not taking out. Even if you take out something like gluten, you can replace gluten in ways of carbs on your diet. We can find other carbs. There's no nutrients and gluten rich foods that you're missing out on besides literally carbs. I love that when people post, like, whole wheat bread with the enriched and fortified vitamins in it, it's like, we can find those in other foods. We don't need to eat bread in order to survive.

Illie [00:42:34]:
Like coffee.

Michelle Shapiro [00:42:34]:
Exactly. We can totally find an almond milk without carrageenan and totally play. It's very, very low risk, very low cost, alternative risk.

Illie [00:42:44]:
Like swap for people. And that's literally what I try to give people as an option. I'm like, I know you love that cupcake, but you have that cupcake every night for dinner, for dessert, and you're always complaining that you're chronically bloated and you have blood sugar problems and all these things. So how about maybe we find a cupcake that doesn't have all those nasty ingredients so you can still enjoy your cupcake? And it's like trade for a trade. Like, this is an even exchange we're trying to have here. And that's what I don't understand about those people is like, what are people losing from just swapping it out? What are people losing?

Michelle Shapiro [00:43:22]:
The people posting are losing their egos if they don't get to post about it. That's all they're losing.

Illie [00:43:27]:
That's the only thing. And for me, I don't give a shit if you lose your freedom ego. Like, I, you know.

Michelle Shapiro [00:43:33]:
Yeah, yeah. I think, you know mine and your personality is very interesting because we have many similarities, and I think because you're very tough, in a good way, eastern european tough, as I've told you, like, and I love that. I think that people can mistake information based on how it's presented. And I think people see a study on the back of a screen and a personality that's like, I'm a PhD dietician. And I think people lose the message with, and what I, what I always have loved about you is that I always know that you're trying to help people. And, yeah, you curse and yeah, you're tough, and I love that about you. And I think that it's really understanding that, again, even if. And this is something that has always pissed me off with, you know, about you and, you know, not about you, about what happens to you is that people take shots at you all the time and repost your stuff.

Michelle Shapiro [00:44:25]:
And I just want to say, like, someone's personality also doesn't indicate whether they're middle ground, whether they're compassionate, whether they're anything. You are really damn as close to the middle as any person can get. Like, you're on the equator in my head. Like, you are on the middle line. And I think that it's, it's just there's something about social media, too, where the certain personality types, like, if people are talking in a more monotone way, if people, it's just, it's really interesting. And I, and I get more upset when people stitch your videos and attack you than you do because you're, like, tough as nails. But I always message you. And I'm like, I hate this so much.

Illie [00:44:59]:
And you're like, no, actually, I don't know. Like, I think it's because I don't give a shit that I don't have a degree. Like, I genuinely just don't give a shit. Like, I have the money to go to get back to college. And really, if I want to be indoctrinated, you think I want to pay thousands of dollars to be indoctrinated and, like, have to unlearn everything again? Like, no, I don't feel like doing that, to be quite honest. Like, I'd rather be a CEO, which I'm already fucking doing. I don't give a shit. Like, I'm good, bro.

Illie [00:45:25]:
Like, I don't need to prove to you that I don't even, first off, I don't even like you, so what am I going to try to prove to you? Anything. Like, I don't care. I've known you for 3 seconds through a screen, and I've hated all 3 seconds. So, like, for me, I don't give a crap. So I think that's what people, like, don't like about me, maybe, is because they try to discredit me and I don't care. Like, try harder. Like, if you want to try to discredit me, try something new. Like, I'm getting a little bored of the same.

Illie [00:45:53]:
Like, well, you're not a doctor. Like, thank you. No shit, sherlock. I'm also a brunette. Like, anything else would be, like, to state the obvious, like, I don't care. And I think that's what they get so flustered about, is because I genuinely don't care. Like, I'm here for the people. I'm a girls girl.

Illie [00:46:07]:
Like, let's. I want all my wellness girlies to feel hot, healthy, thriving. Like, that's all I want. If that means I have to fucking review Cheerios, I'll fucking review the Cheerios. You know? Like, I don't care. So I think that's really why people get upset and they try to take me down, and I'm like, girl, we're gonna have to get creative if you really want to do all that.

Michelle Shapiro [00:46:26]:
I also can tell you, like, you know, as a total HSP person, living in an HSP, one of my biggest flaws in life is that I am very people pleaser. And it's something where, like, I get tortured when I'm posting something online because I'm like, what if it hurts this person? What if it's this? And sometimes, like, it's just healthier to be in the mindset you're in. And I think that's something that people can learn from you, too. What would Illie do?

Illie [00:46:52]:
Like, what would Illie say? What would Illie say?

Michelle Shapiro [00:46:54]:
Yes. It's not shop, Illie. It's think, Illie. I really do like that about you, and I admire it because it's something that I always am working on in myself, and I always want my clients to work on is, like, my concern is not what people think about me, it's what I'm saying. How it can affect someone in a negative way. That's always my fear in life. It's like, what makes me sleep less in life.

Illie [00:47:16]:
That means you care. So that's, like, a good thing, you know, for sure.

Michelle Shapiro [00:47:19]:
But I really admire this about you because the information has to be out there, and I'd much rather someone see something middle ground and be bold enough to post it. And for you to just let things bounce off of you, it's just healthier for your whole HPA axis to let things bounce off of you and to just be like, you know what? I feel strong in what I'm saying, and I know I'm doing it for the right reasons. And I. And I believe that about you so much, and I've always believed that about you, so I appreciate that. So much. All right, Illie, we can't. We have to give them. All right, give me chemicals.

 

What chemicals in skincare, hair, and other products should you avoid?

Michelle Shapiro [00:47:50]:
Give me chemicals.

Illie [00:47:51]:
So give people what they want.

Michelle Shapiro [00:47:53]:
So, skin products, food products, what are your. I'm on level one. Illie. Think. Think skin wise, because Michelle Shapiro is on level one. Skin wise. What do I care about skin wise? What. And then we'll talk about the other categories.

Michelle Shapiro [00:48:06]:
But what are you looking at? And you're like, do not get used this in your products. Even level one. Yeah.

Illie [00:48:11]:
I mean, obviously, we have to avoid the. The synthetic fragrance. You know? Like, we can't just. We can't keep buying candles from target. We just can't keep doing it. So that's, like, a big thing. Fragrance can be found in everything. I've seen fragrance in freaking, like, blushes and bronzers and in lipsticks.

Illie [00:48:27]:
And you're, like, ingesting it. Like, it's like, how many times are we ingesting fragrance? Probably never. But if you use a lipstick, like, I've seen lipsticks and lip glosses have fragrance. So I really am, like, so big on the fragrance because we don't know what it is.

Michelle Shapiro [00:48:40]:
I'm using just aloe on my lips now. I'm so. Okay. I'm so glad. That's awesome.

Illie [00:48:45]:
See, like, that's a big one because it can contain a lot of endocrine disruptors. And that's the biggest thing when it comes to skincare and the products that we use in our home is the endocrine disruptors. So that's the biggest thing. I know so many women that struggle with hormone problems and the migraines, and that's the issue. It really messes with those hormonal receptors, and it can really fuck with them. So I really try to avoid fragrance. I avoid bht pegs. Parabens.

Illie [00:49:10]:
Like, those will be very clear because BHG will just say pedest.

Michelle Shapiro [00:49:14]:
It'll literally say bht. It'll say parabens. Okay.

Illie [00:49:17]:
Yeah. So those will be in everything. Even, like, so powdered products. I don't know many that use, I mean, makeup. We usually use talc. We try not to use talc because it's been linked to, you know, breast cancer. So these are all the things that are in facial products and products that we use in our bodies. Yeah.

Illie [00:49:35]:
Those are the ones that are messing with our hormones. So those are the big ones.

Michelle Shapiro [00:49:41]:
Hair products, parabens, phthalates. That's what you're looking at, too.

Illie [00:49:46]:
SLS. SLS is a foaming agent. It's also been an endocrine disruptor. So that's usually in like toothpaste. Like, we're ingesting it, anything that foam. So I get a lot of, like, in the beginning when we first started to live healthily, a lot of people I would order, like, body wash. It's like, if this doesn't foam, I'm like. Because it doesn't have toxic foaming agents, that's a soap.

Illie [00:50:06]:
Like, doesn't like, it'll fluff up a bit, but it won't foam the way that those bubbly ones do. So if something's bubbling a lot, like, flip it over and see if there's like sls in it. And it'll just say that you have to be very careful about stuff like that. But candles, the same thing. Candles can contain fragrance and the wick can be paraffin, which is synthetic. And now you're just burning synthetic shit into your air and you're inhaling it and it's just disgusting. So those are things I like to avoid in, like, my topical products or like, things that I'm putting on my body. And then when it comes to, like, things that I'm ingesting, I'm definitely on the stricter side, I think, than many people in the space.

Illie [00:50:45]:
But I definitely avoid, obviously, like, all the artificial sweeteners. Like, I don't have aspartame. I don't have aceslaphane potassium, which is the cousin of aspartame. I don't do the superlose, I don't do any of that. I try to stay away from inflammatory oils like the canola and the rapeseed sunflower oil. If it's like a high oleic organic sunflower oil, I don't think that's terrible. But it's not something I have every day. Like, I'm very hierarchy needs with stuff like that because sometimes it's just like unavoidable.

Illie [00:51:12]:
I like to avoid a lot of gums. Like, if I start, I don't think all gums are bad. They definitely have a time and a place, and if they're high quality, they're not bad. Like, xanthan gum can be bad. But if it's like a non GMO Xanthan gum, then we're like kind of in the clear. But the thing is, is people are consuming a lot of them and a lot of their products, and they're causing, like, you have to think of what a gum does. So gums are very sticky. They make things stick together.

Illie [00:51:40]:
They can emulsify. So they make things now sticky and thicker. So imagine what that's doing in your gut. So I don't think if, like, the only gum you have is, like, in your coffee creamer, that that's going to be a problem. But I think it's in the coffee creamer. It's in the yogurts, it's in the protein bars. It's in your protein shakes. It's in Mac and cheese.

Illie [00:52:00]:
Like, it's in all these things that are supposed to be, like, sticky and thicken, and that's where the problems start to arise. That's, like, an informed consent kind of ingredient, where I'm like, just be aware of how many you're consuming, especially if you have gut problems. So that's one of those products. And then, of course, I don't do the artificial or, like, the natural flavor.

Michelle Shapiro [00:52:20]:
Natural flavor? Yeah. That's a controversial one. I'm at pretty much level 65 or whatever we want to call it with you. But, you know, now it's interesting. Like, my whole world is reframed since histamine issues, because I used to feel great drinking citric acid, and I used to feel great with natural flavors, but I actually noticed a difference now, because I will say that mass activation syndrome will make you highly attuned to things like that. So you will actually notice things before your labs even show it. You'll notice something. So people might have to be more strict otherwise.

Michelle Shapiro [00:52:52]:
But it's interesting. It's just this whole level theory is so fascinating, and I love it. I'm calling it level theory, and it's Illie's level theory because I really realized even myself over time. I'm like, you know what? You're talking about. The hair stuff. All right. Yeah. I use shea moisture shampoo.

Michelle Shapiro [00:53:08]:
I use, like, natural soaps. It does not foam.

Illie [00:53:11]:
It's.

Michelle Shapiro [00:53:11]:
There's no fun in the soap at all. But I realized that over time, I started to care about different things. And you kind of slowly integrate those things and slowly care. But it's not like if I go out to eat, I'm really concerned about the ingredients. It is what it is. Like, I'm just going to always choose the same foods because I. That's just what I eat now, but it really has to be. Again, where are you at? And essentially, how do you take yourself, like, 2% further, if you want to, and in what direction? You know, until my skin starts bothering me or I notice changes in my hormones or my hair mineral test, I'm probably going to use the toxic eyeliner.

Michelle Shapiro [00:53:45]:
But when my hair wasn't feeling normal, and I felt like the texture of my hair was off. I was like, I'm switching, right? We care when we care. And I always get this really funny story. My little cousin, she's, like a supermodel, gorgeous angel. She's a perfect person. Obviously love her. She has lupus, and she basically just wasn't doing much for her lupus. I forced her to start taking action for it because she was very symptomatic.

Michelle Shapiro [00:54:09]:
She had one hair fall out. I'm not even kidding. Her hair started falling out at a higher rate than it normally did. And she was like, and I'm doing something about the lupus now. We don't care when we care for her. The aesthetic piece of it was more important than the fact that she was having debilitating spinal excruciating pain. She was like, I literally don't care until it affects me aesthetically, which is like, we're all whatever we care about. We care about some people.

Michelle Shapiro [00:54:33]:
The pain is really the more important thing, which it just depends on us. So you really have to think, not only where am I at health wise, where am I going? And what are my priorities? And then you can start to play with what's important to you and move yourself like, that 2%, basically. And Illy, like, you're saying, the problem is, when people are looking at your content, they're like, oh, God, now I can never recede oil again. Illy's not doing seed oils. I'm not doing seed oils. It's like, if that is the most important thing in your world, it might be, honestly. And that's okay if any of these things are the most important thing. But you got to find your thing and then push it, like, again.

Michelle Shapiro [00:55:05]:
I got a water filter. Probably after I got a water filter, like, four years ago, I probably got that after a lot of functional dietitians got it, you know? Like, we all. We have to move at our own pace. And instead of the thinking being, how do I start? By cutting out everything in my life, start the other direction. Where am I at right now? And how am I moving the needle of my life in my health, when.

Illie [00:55:26]:
It comes to toxins and, like, level 60 for you can be completely different for me too. Like, there's people I know. Like, I'm not. I am not the girl to go to a. My husband's gonna take me to a restaurant. I'm gonna be like, do you cook with seed oil? Like, I'm. That's just not me. That'll never be me, because I'm like, I don't live my life like that.

Illie [00:55:47]:
And I feel like I do enough foundational things to mitigate the 1% of the year that I have seed oils. Like, whatever. It's not a big deal. But then those same people will, like, drink. So it's like, for me, I'll never touch a drink. I've been sober for three years now, so I'm like, I'll never touch a drink. But then there's people who are, like, babysitting a cocktail, and then you're like, but is there seed oils in this? So it's like, everybody has their thing. Like, for me, I ordered three dresses on shein, and I'm getting crucified, and.

Illie [00:56:14]:
But I'm like, I won't touch seed oils, and I don't drink. I don't do the botox, and I don't do the thing. So it's like, people have their own levels, and then they project where they're at, and they think that you should be where they're at and vice versa. So, like, sometimes people see you and I and be like, oh, well, she does this and that, dude. Like, people are like, I looked up to you, and I'm like, oh, okay. Like, what the hell?

Michelle Shapiro [00:56:36]:
You know? People don't say stuff like that to me.

Illie [00:56:38]:
I don't know.

Michelle Shapiro [00:56:38]:
You're scarier than me. But for some reason, people are too afraid to say weird stuff like that to me, and I'm gonna ask people to continue to not say weird stuff like that. Yeah. You know, this happens. Level theory, as it's now called, level theory happens on a moral basis, too.

Illie [00:56:55]:
Right?

Michelle Shapiro [00:56:55]:
Like, there's moral relativity, right? Like, something that I would think is totally uncool. Someone else would be like, that's fine. I to do that. And I'm like, that's totally uncool. It's the same thing with Sheen. Whatever. From a moral standpoint or from a clothing standpoint, people are just basically saying to you, oh, illy, I thought you were on the same level of this thing as me. And you're like, why would you think that? I never said I was level eight and five in sustainability.

Michelle Shapiro [00:57:19]:
I'm level one in sustainability. You know, it's really. It's really interesting. And this is something like, you need to find the people who are at your level or speaking to your level of whatever your thing is. So, like, if someone was a political activist, right. They would not be on, like, a page like ours that's talking about health, because that's not where they're going to be. Like, the only thing that is so important or social activist is something like, you know, food inequality or food insecurity, and that's the most important thing. And, like, thank God that people, like, that exists.

Michelle Shapiro [00:57:49]:
Like that. Thank God that there's people who are so high in their levels of their thing, but we have to go to people who are at our level or a level we want to be at. That's reasonable for us, I think.

Illie [00:57:59]:
Yeah, and I think people also. They see you as somebody, right? And then they want you to master everything. Like I'm the fucking avatar. Like, I'm not, you know, like, I'm not gonna master all the elements of health. Like, it's just not gonna be my thing. Like, there's definitely things I slap on, and definitely sustainability is not my forte. Will I, like, only buy, like, the beeswax covers for my food? Yeah, course. Like, that's, you know, and will I only buy the ceramic and glass container? Like, yeah, of course.

Illie [00:58:30]:
Like, I have those things, but, like, I'm just not at the realm of, like, that. Like, that's just not my thing. And, you know, like, people always be in my dm's telling me to speak on things, and I'm like, that's just not what I created my page for. You know? Like, do you walk into a library and ask them why they don't sell clothes? Like, no, you don't. So it's like, why do people come onto others pages? Like, I'm clearly, like, I'm a whole food first, holistic girly in my own way. Like, I'm just learning as much as anybody else is learning. Like, when articles come out, I'm like, oh, shit, that's crazy. You know? Like, I find out in real time on a lot of stuff.

Illie [00:59:07]:
So it's, like, for people to want you to be where they're at is, like, crazy. And then I follow people who are, like, next level. Like, they live in Costa Rica, and they walk around barefoot, and they're like.

Michelle Shapiro [00:59:18]:
Like, grabbing, you know, person in particular, but, yeah, exactly. Yeah, like.

Illie [00:59:22]:
Like a bunch. I'm just like that, you know, not that I, like, think that's bad or anything. I'm like, that's. That's next level. You know? Like, that's what I like. That's level 100 to me. You know, this is so.

Michelle Shapiro [00:59:33]:
Well, there's also, if we wanted to be granular about this hilarious theory, we're New Yorkers, so, like, we are native borough girls, Bronx and Queens. Up in here. Okay? We are, like, real borough girls. The level of toxicity from a trauma and physical standpoint is gonna be high. So it's just gonna be high to start with. Which also means that, like, you know, I said. I said to Jeremy, my husband, the other day, I was like, by the way, shout out to the entire illy family, crew, husband and brother. You guys are the best who help her with her company.

Michelle Shapiro [01:00:05]:
You guys are amazing and run this whole company together, and they're the coolest people ever. But I said, I was like, you know, like, the water in New Jersey and New York is, like, some of the worst water in the entire country, by the way. It's a huge problem. So I'm like, we just have to get a water filter, because that's the compromise we make in living here. I have a client who's amazing, Alana. And she'll listen to this. She's, like, a huge podcast listener. She's awesome and brilliant and also, like, just an amazing person.

Michelle Shapiro [01:00:29]:
She, like, rides horses all the time. She, like, swims. She's in, like, the Cape Cod area. She'll, like, swim in the river. And I'm like, I don't know what you're doing. My dream that I could ever do what you're doing. I'm never getting to that level. And that's okay.

Michelle Shapiro [01:00:44]:
You know what I mean? Like, I wish I could be as cool as her, but it's also just like you said, like, my dream isn't to be living in Costa Rica. My dream is to be alive and in New York. Like, just. Just alive and in New York. That's all I'm trying to do here.

Illie [01:00:57]:
And that's not my bar, is that.

Michelle Shapiro [01:00:59]:
Yeah, exactly. And it's just not that easy. I'm not trying to be the healthiest person the world. I'm trying to, like, feel okay, and I'm trying to get my clients to feel okay, too. And because of. So I think that's really the consideration, is where are you going with it? I think that's brilliant, by the way, that everyone's at a different level, and you need to know where you're going with your levels and if you want to be alive. And, like, in New York or major cities like us, that's where we're going. We're going to be the best level of being alive in New York.

Illie [01:01:25]:
Yeah. Like, I'm ranking, like, top five in my little city in Florida. Like, that's where, like, I'm not trying to be the best in the world. You know, like, I'm starting. I'm small town vibes, you know, southern Florida, level 100.

Michelle Shapiro [01:01:39]:
Costa Rica's level one. That's the difference.

Illie [01:01:42]:
I'm probably in Miami. I'm like, level like three because they're, like, wild every weekend, you know? Like, I'm just like, I. People are probably shocked. I don't even cold plunge. I've never been in a cold plunge.

Michelle Shapiro [01:01:54]:
Oh, wow.

Illie [01:01:55]:
Yeah. Isn't that so? You've never plunged? You've never plunged healthily? Next article. Healthily's never plunged.

Michelle Shapiro [01:02:02]:
Never plunged.

Illie [01:02:03]:
She's.

Michelle Shapiro [01:02:03]:
She's. She thinks you can talk about skincare products. She's never plunged. How could you? That's because you're not on the plunging level, Ellie. You're not on the plunging level.

Illie [01:02:12]:
That's not at that level. Yeah, I don't like plunging. And also, it's terrible for my nervous system. I hate being cold. Like, it actually is terrible. Like, I'd rather be in a sauna than coldness.

Michelle Shapiro [01:02:22]:
It's like, when I do any cryo or plunging, my blood sugar goes up to, like, 400 immediately because of how high stress and high cortisol it is for me. I'm like, we're like lizards. I need to, like, be in the.

Illie [01:02:35]:
Sun even though I know, like, I live in Florida. You want me to cold plunge? Get the hell out of. Get out of my life.

Michelle Shapiro [01:02:42]:
You're like, I moved from the northeast to be warm, okay? I'm not cold plunging now.

Illie [01:02:46]:
Like, everyone's like, let's cold plunge. I'm like, no. Like, that's so crazy. Like, there's a lot of shit. Like, I haven't even entered the biohacking world. Like, let's be so for real.

Michelle Shapiro [01:02:55]:
Like, I've been in it a long time. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna sell it to you straight. I did ace. I was a speaker on a series and helped promote and produce this series called Biohack the World. And it was, like, seven years ago. Yeah, no, we. I've been in this game.

Michelle Shapiro [01:03:06]:
It's a New York thing, though. Like majors. Like, I feel like not Bronx, New York with Manhattan, you know?

Illie [01:03:10]:
Yeah, definitely not Bronx. Not doing that.

Michelle Shapiro [01:03:14]:
And good for them, by the way. I'm not saying it's good that I did that, but that was level. But you know what, Ilya? And this is the absolute truth. When I was doing all the biohacking stuff. And it's so funny because this group chat, whoever of the podcast, you know, I have some of them listen to the podcast they know all of us were also, like, level 100, and now we're like, let's drop down to 65 together. You know what I mean? New York, 65. Let's drop down to it. You also can get way, again, excited about these things, and then you have to find and kind of make things real for your life.

Michelle Shapiro [01:03:43]:
So that is this theory I didn't know was coming up today. I'm beyond obsessed and going to use it in other episodes. Ellie, it was like, the joy of my day to talk with you. Can you tell people how to find you? Of course. I'm going to put the links down below. Just give me the whole illy landscape here. Talk to us. Yeah.

 

Find and work with HealthIllie

Illie [01:04:02]:
Healthily on all platforms. TikTok is a shit show, so don't find me on there. Find me on instagram is where you want me healthily. And then, of course, my website, live healthily, where you can shop all things low talks and amazing. Like, just such amazing small businesses that we work with. We have over 50, 60 small businesses and overdose 500 products. So there's something for everybody. And it's my pride and joy and my firstborn child, and I'm just, like, obsessed.

Illie [01:04:31]:
So, yeah, that's where you can find me.

Michelle Shapiro [01:04:33]:
And also, you can come on to shop healthily at any level, live healthily at any level. If you're at level one of I'm full talks, all levels of any. Any morality, any health status, you're welcome there. And really, that is the truth.

Illie [01:04:52]:
Yeah. You could be a Delray five or a Miami ten, and you can shop a little.

Michelle Shapiro [01:04:57]:
To say I'm not a Miami ten. With how attractive people are, by the way, I've never been less than anything than I am attractiveness wise in Miami. It's a completely out of control situation in Miami.

Illie [01:05:08]:
No, it's actually.

Michelle Shapiro [01:05:08]:
I mean, you're a welcome addition. Yeah, exactly. Thank you. You are the freaking best. Thank you so much.