Transcript 

Hydration, Electrolytes and Mineral Essentials with Amanda Montalvo

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:00:00]:

So, Amanda, I was looking up the difference between the word mistress and maiden because I was trying to figure out if you're the mistress of minerals or the maiden of minerals. And I think mistress is actually, like a well regarded term, like in authority figure. So I think you're the mistress of minerals. Think that's what I'm calling you from now on.

Amanda Montalvo [00:03:59]:
Maybe I feel like maiden because, like, you. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Mistress of minerals. Yeah. Because it's like I just think of, like, when you become a mom, you go from maiden to mother. That's what I think.

Michelle Shapiro [00:04:10]:
You know what? Hold on a second. You're the mother of minerals? Amanda, what are we doing here? That is, you're the mother of minerals. So I couldn't have an episode on hydration and minerals without the mother of minerals. It wasn't going to happen. Of course not. So welcome back to the show. One of my best friends, one of my favorite human beings, the smartest dietitian in the world, Amanda Montalvo.

Amanda Montalvo [00:04:34]:
Yay.

Michelle Shapiro [00:04:34]:
I'm so happy you're here.

Amanda Montalvo [00:04:36]:
Thank you for having me. I'm like, am I the smartest? Are you the smartest?

Michelle Shapiro [00:04:39]:
Let me answer that quick. You, maybe Jillian. Maybe Jillian.

Amanda Montalvo [00:04:43]:
Jillian's smartest.

Michelle Shapiro [00:04:44]:
Kind of Jillian. Actually. Forget both of us. Jillian's the smartest dietitian we know. Exactly. Yes, Amanda, you do really in depth work with minerals. And in this episode, I really want to lay the groundwork and basics of minerals because, as you can imagine, a lot of what we talk about on this podcast and, you know, is the societal context within all of the nutritional learning we have. And now it's really all about adrenal cocktails.

Michelle Shapiro [00:05:10]:
I consider you one of the pioneers of that. It's all about how we're not hydrated, but I think people still don't understand on a cellular level and a biological level what hydration really is and how important minerals are. So I think today, I really just want to cover with you and you'll help me to uncover a lot of the myths and truths about hydration and minerals. Yes.

Amanda Montalvo [00:05:32]:
I'm excited. There are a lot of myths out there and ones that I think it's still kind of difficult to know. Like, is this true or not? Like, you'll see a lot of people share that information, and, like, we're talking about before we hit record. It's just such an underutilized tool. Like, I just did a newsletter about this. I think it was last week on hydration.

Michelle Shapiro [00:05:52]:
You're probably literally this Sunday, by the way. I was dying laughing. Cause I was like, oh, perfect prep.

Amanda Montalvo [00:05:57]:
We're gonna talk about this. Yeah, it's. It's one of those things I think people are like, oh, no, I'm good. And I'm like, are you, though, like. Cause there are little tweaks that you can make when it comes to your hydration that can make you feel really, really good.

Michelle Shapiro [00:06:09]:
Do you think that a majority of people are actually dehydrated and don't realize it?

 

Do you think that a majority of people are actually dehydrated and don't realize it?

Amanda Montalvo [00:06:13]:
I do. I think most people are, yeah, for the most part. Or, like, over hydrated and undermineralized. I see that a lot. Like, the trend of those giant water bottle jugs that are like. I think they're like a gallon of water in. Have you seen those online?

Michelle Shapiro [00:06:30]:
It's like the new. It's the next Stanley cup thing.

Amanda Montalvo [00:06:32]:
It's like.

Michelle Shapiro [00:06:33]:
It's literally, like 16 cups. It's literally a gallon of water.

Amanda Montalvo [00:06:36]:
Yeah, it's like a gallon of water. And people will fill their thing, and I think it's very important. Hydrate. We're going to talk about that, but not adding any minerals to that. And then they're, like, talking about how they're, like, constantly peeing. I'm like, guys, this is a red flag. This is your body trying to tell you something. So, you know, it's.

Amanda Montalvo [00:06:54]:
It's important.

Michelle Shapiro [00:06:55]:
So this really. You already kind of poked at a couple of the important topics. So you can be over hydrated from a water perspective, but undermineralized. Tell us a little bit about that.

 

Tell us about how you can be over hydrated from a water perspective, but undermineralized

Amanda Montalvo [00:07:07]:
So when you're drinking water that doesn't have any minerals added to it, and this could be, like, your water out of your faucet. It doesn't have a lot of people think of like, well, I'm not drinking reverse osmosis. Water, which removes all minerals and literally everything. It's a great way to filter water, but it removes everything. And a lot of reverse osmosis filters. Now add them back in because we know how important they are. But even just like your typical water out of your faucet, there's, unless you're on well water, some well water is amazing, but oftentimes it's not going to have adequate minerals in it. It's just water.

Amanda Montalvo [00:07:43]:
And so in order to actually absorb that water, water into our cells, we need sodium and potassium specifically. That really helps to actually get into the cells and be used for the dozens of different functions we use it for in the body. So you can drink a lot of water, but not adding minerals to it can lead to you're basically, you're just peeing that out. And that's also pretty stressful on the body. And that's, like, one of my signs, like, things that we ask our clients, like, how often are you urinating throughout the day? And when they are doing that excessively, it's a big red flag. Absolutely.

Michelle Shapiro [00:08:18]:
And so I think this from doctors we've learned forever this number. Eight glasses of water per day. Eight to ten cups of water per day. What do you think about that as a baseline recommendation?

Amanda Montalvo [00:08:30]:
I don't think it's terrible. I like to meet people where they are. I just think it's so important to do that. Obviously, you're listening to a podcast. We don't know you. We can't tell you how much to drink. So what a cool way for you to kind of discover is to track what you're currently drinking. This is what we have clients do, too.

Amanda Montalvo [00:08:50]:
We're not, like, blindly, like, just add in more water. We want to know how much are you currently drinking? Are you adding minerals? Are you doing adrenal cocktails, coffee, tea, all that kind of stuff? And then from there, we get an idea of, okay, this is how much this person's drinking during the day. And we'll compare that to, are they, you know, urinating all the time? Are they sleeping? Okay, what's their hunger, their appetite, like, their skin? I mean, literally all your symptoms, you know, we could talk about pots, you know, mcaus, like that hydration is so important for this population, really for every population, but like, something we really hone in on. And so we would want to compare what they're currently doing and then slowly optimize it. Because if you just automatically, like, say, you track what you're drinking and you're like, okay, minus coffee and tea, which we'll probably talk about. I'm getting about like, you know, 50oz a day. Obviously, that's probably going to be low for most people, especially if you're not adding minerals to that. So you wouldn't just want to go to like, okay, well, I'm going to go to 80oz.

Amanda Montalvo [00:09:51]:
That's going to stress your body out and you'd want to slowly increase your water intake. Otherwise, again, you're just going to be peeing all that water out, not really hydrating yourself and potentially losing more minerals in your urine.

Michelle Shapiro [00:10:05]:
If you jumped from 50oz to 80oz drastically and you're saying that would stress your body out, can you tell us how over hydrating on just the water aspect without the minerals is stressful to the body?

 

How can over hydrating on just the water aspect without the minerals be stressful to the body?

Amanda Montalvo [00:10:17]:
Yeah. So it's going to be a lot more work for your kidneys, which can also impact your adrenal function and impact your sodium status. So how much sodium are you retaining are you getting rid of? And literally, when we are low in sodium, it is a stressor on the body. Our body recognizes this as, okay, I'm moving into fight or flight because we don't have adequate sodium, because it's so important. It helps us get nutrients inside our cells, hormones inside our cells, low sodium diets. We've seen lead, insulin resistance for a lot of people. So sodium is incredibly important. So when we start to really over hydrate without adding minerals, we can actually be depleting our mineral levels.

Amanda Montalvo [00:10:58]:
And that kicks off a stress response in the body because we use those minerals for so many different functions.

Michelle Shapiro [00:11:04]:
Sodium is a very interesting mineral to talk about because it also has been quite villainized, of course, as we think of salt, table salts in the cases of high blood pressure. When we think of sodium from a visual perspective inside the body, can you walk us through what it does to, like you said, enhance absorption of water? Tell us a little bit about sodium and what its role is in the body. And if you can provide visuals, that would be awesome.

Amanda Montalvo [00:11:31]:
Yeah. So when it comes to sodium, and we can't talk about sodium without potassium, because they work hand in hand, sodium, like, what doesn't it do in the body? It helps us transfer nutrients, it helps transfer hormones. It's important for keeping our blood volume and just overall water volume in the body at a specific amount that keeps us stable, keeps our blood pressure up. It's also really important for absorbing the water that we're drinking when it comes to, like, actually taking that water inside our cells. Well, even in our small intestine honestly, we need sodium to be present. So if we really want to absorb that, take it into the system, and then get it inside our cells, we need to have enough sodium, and we need to have enough potassium. And that helps move water inside the cell. It also helps move things outside of the cell.

Amanda Montalvo [00:12:18]:
So if we don't have enough of that, then that sodium potassium pump isn't going to work properly, and that will lead to cellular dehydration, which often I think of fatigue. When I think of cellular dehydration, that's the most common thing I can think of is, like, people, I'm drinking a lot of water, but I'm. I feel like I'm just peeing it all out. While they can have kind of other common signs of, like, your typical dehydration, maybe, like, dry skin, maybe. I think of, like, headaches, dizziness, things like that, constipation, you know, dry lips and mouth, when that's, like, pretty obvious. But even flush skin, I think of, like, dehydration. When I think of flush skin, not being able to tolerate hot or cold. And when I think about, okay, if those things are showing up and this person's also really fatigued, but they're drinking a lot of water, they're likely not getting that water actually inside their cells.

Michelle Shapiro [00:13:14]:
If you aren't getting the water inside your cells, where's the water hanging out? And what symptoms could there be outside of just feeling like you're peeing it out? Where does the water go if it's not absorbed into your cells?

Amanda Montalvo [00:13:26]:
Well, it could just be sitting in that extracellular fluid as well. And you could end up with, like, edema, like, fluid retention. That's a common one that we see. And just, like, bloating is common, but even just, like, over your whole entire body, a lot of people will say, I feel inflamed, and it's a little swollen, things like that. You can definitely have that swelling. You can have that even if you're getting in enough sodium, I do want to say, because we need potassium to balance out the sodium, and this is where people are like, oh, my gosh, this is so confusing. Not, I promise you, it's not confusing. You just want to pair them together.

Amanda Montalvo [00:14:09]:
And if it's not together at that very moment throughout your whole day, right, like, that's all you want to think about. Potassium rich foods is the way I think about it. And then sea salt, salt in your foods, or if you're adding salt to your water, like, it doesn't have to be any more complex than that. And the amount you do, you're just going to experiment to figure out what you feel best with. But I do see a lot of swelling when people increase their sodium intake, and then they don't increased potassium. And that's because that potassium helps to balance out that sodium. So if you get swelling, you add sodium into your diet. If you increase your potassium rich foods, that will help give you, like, a little bit of a diuretic effect and then work with that swelling totally.

Michelle Shapiro [00:14:50]:
And then structurally tell us about the sodium potassium pump. Is it literally like what you would picture as being a pump that is pulling water in and out of the cell? Tell us about the sodium potassium pump.

 

What is the sodium potassium pump?

Amanda Montalvo [00:15:02]:
Yes. So that pump, it'll pull water in and out of the cell. It'll pull hormones in and out of the cell, nutrients from our food. It's literally how we transfer things. And that's another reason why sodium is so important. But potassium is too. Like, if we don't have adequate potassium, it's hard. It's also hard to get hormones inside the cell.

Amanda Montalvo [00:15:18]:
I always think of thyroid hormone when I think of potassium. Potassium also helps sensitize our cells to the other aspect of the sodium potassium pump that I think is important to just, like, know about, especially if we're thinking minerals, is that it does require energy to run. So it needs ATP, our body's main fuel source. And what helps us make that, obviously, like, the food that we're eating. But minerals also are really, like calcium, magnesium, copper. There are a lot of minerals that are really important even just for that process. So not only do minerals help hydrate us, they help us make energy to even get that hydration process process going.

 

Explain the relationship between sodium and how we maintain fluid balance in the body.

Michelle Shapiro [00:15:58]:
Tell me also about the relationship between sodium and how we maintain fluid balance in the body. So it's not only that sodium obviously, like, absorbs water molecules. And if they're in the wrong place, you kind of, like, get that against swollen kind of feeling. But sodium is also responsible in some signaling and communication between the body to let you know, hold on to this much water, release this much water. Tell us about that.

Amanda Montalvo [00:16:23]:
Yeah, so that's going to be a lot of specific hormones, like, in our kidneys. So the more like sodium that you're getting in, then typically the more that your body's going to want to get rid of. So it's not going to be retaining as much water because you're going to have this hormone release that's going to tell your kidneys, hey, we are going to either retain this sodium because we need it or we're going to get rid of it because we have plenty. And along with that, we'll be getting rid of water as well. And that's kind of where potassium is important, too, because potassium helps to balance out that process where if you don't have enough potassium, then you can just end up retaining a lot of sodium. Once you add that potassium in, it has like that effect where it balances it out. They oppose each other. A lot of minerals work synergistically and antagonistically.

Amanda Montalvo [00:17:10]:
And that's really the relationship between sodium, potassium. It's like they work together, but they also oppose each other to keep everything in balance, including that fluid in the body. Absolutely.

Michelle Shapiro [00:17:21]:
And then tell me, are there other mineral duos that are worth mentioning, ones that work either synergistically or antagonistically?

Amanda Montalvo [00:17:28]:
Yeah, I think of calcium, magnesium. Those are very calming minerals. We need them for many different things. They're both really important for bone health, they're both really important for blood sugar, and they work together. But if you have, like, say, for example, you're taking a magnesium supplement and you have already, you're already depleted in calcium, or you're taking a lot, like, I see you taking really high doses of magnesium, like over a thousand milligrams.

Michelle Shapiro [00:17:55]:
I see all the time. Yeah, yeah.

Amanda Montalvo [00:17:57]:
And I'm like, okay, that's going to deplete your calcium, especially because a lot of times these are people, they're like, I can't tolerate dairy. Not that that's the only way that we get calcium. You can get it in like cooked greens, beans, seafood. But, um, you know, a lot of us are getting a decent amount of our calcium from dairy. So say you're like, can't consume dairy. You're not as having as many calcium rich foods. You're taking a lot of magnesium. That could deplete your calcium stores, and that can have a huge impact on your nervous system, your stress response, histamine symptoms, things like that.

Amanda Montalvo [00:18:27]:
So those work hand in hand. Same thing with, if you're taking an excessive amount of calcium, then that can deplete your magnesium. They go together for sure, but they also are important to have, like to consume together just so that you get all the benefits. Absolutely.

Michelle Shapiro [00:18:42]:
And I also, and I'm aware of the other duos and there's a couple other we'll talk about, too. I want to go back to sodium because I'm going to torture you with more sodium questions. So sodium specifically, even in traditional dietetic school, right. We're always learning that if you have low sodium in your blood labs. It's probably related to something more like an edema. Like, you have fluid retention less than the actual sodium that you intake. Same thing. If your sodium's high in your labs, it's usually related to functional dehydration, or, like, not even subclinical dehydration, but, like, actual dehydration.

Michelle Shapiro [00:19:21]:
Yeah. What do you see when you're looking at sodium in blood versus sodium in on an actual hair mineral test?

Amanda Montalvo [00:19:29]:
So, first of all, if someone has low sodium in their blood, I would say, please start consuming some sodium.

Michelle Shapiro [00:19:36]:
And actually, you're saying it is still a sign that they need. Yeah.

Amanda Montalvo [00:19:41]:
Like, if it's low, it takes a long time for our blood measurements to get out of balance. Typically, because our blood very tightly, we. Our body very tightly regulates the blood values. So it's gonna compensate and take nutrients from different parts of the body to keep them within a specific range, because your body wants to keep you safe and alive. So whenever blood is out of range, I'm like, this has probably been going on for a long time. When it comes to hair testing, that's when you can typically see a change before you'd see it in your blood work, which is one of the reasons that I really like it. So say, for example, someone has, like, really low blood, really low sodium on their blood test and on your hair test, it could either be really high, meaning you're using it up, you're in an active stress response, which is, this is why people are like, hair testing is inaccurate. I'm like, it is.

Amanda Montalvo [00:20:35]:
You just have to. The person read it. Right? Yeah, you have to read it correctly. But oftentimes, if I see low sodium on a blood test or potassium, it's going to be really low on their hair test. But before it would have seen that on the blood, we would have seen it very high on the hair test and been thinking, okay, you're actively stressed. That's often a sign of that. It's also usually a sign of inflammation and, like, what stage of stress you're in, and that's when you can take action. Right? Oh, I'm using up a lot of these minerals.

Amanda Montalvo [00:21:06]:
I'm going to add some more in so that you don't get to the point where you're, like, chronically depleted on a blood test.

Michelle Shapiro [00:21:13]:
If we were living like cave woman, would we need to be adding mineral supplements to food? Are we. Do we have a mineral crisis of sorts where our food supply is depleted in minerals? Are we just so much more stress that we need to add electrolytes to food. Are we not drinking? Well, we, like, drink seawater, obviously, but, like, why. Please don't. Why is it that we need minerals externally, especially when it comes to hydration? And would that have been true, do you think, historically, through human time, too?

 

Why is it that we need minerals externally, especially when it comes to hydration?

Amanda Montalvo [00:21:50]:
No. If you look back, we were taking in even more sodium. I mean, like, thousands and thousands of milligrams a day. Like, if. I think it was.

Michelle Shapiro [00:21:59]:
Wow. Is that true?

Amanda Montalvo [00:22:00]:
Yeah, we used to take in a lot of sodium. And in the book the Mineral Fix by Doctor James D. It's a great book about minerals. If anyone wants to nerd out, get a lot of studies. He talks.

Michelle Shapiro [00:22:09]:
He's the author of the salt fix.

Amanda Montalvo [00:22:11]:
Yeah, the salt fix. Yeah. Another great one if you're wanting to learn about hydration and stuff. But basically, he's talking about how we would have had a lot of salt to, like, preserve food, and we also would have gotten it in other forms, so we would have had a ton of salt, but also a lot of potassium naturally. Because if you think of, like, people think potassium is just in carb, carbohydrate rich foods, it's not. It's very rich in animal foods as well. And so I think the ratio ended up being, like a one to one or a one to two ratio of sodium to potassium previously, which is, I mean, now a lot of scholars say that it should be closer to, like, a one to four ratio. So four times the amount of potassium to sodium, or, like, three times the amount of potassium to sodium.

Amanda Montalvo [00:22:58]:
And again, that's definitely going to depend on the person and their health history. Like, if someone has low blood pressure, definitely not going to be that high in potassium. Right. Like, you would have a lot more salt to improve that. But he kind of goes through and saying, like, one, we just got a lot more in general, I mean, like, thousands and thousands of milligrams of each. And the ratio would have been much different. And there's multiple kind of different ways to look at that in studies that he goes into. But I was like, that's really interesting, because I wouldn't necessarily have thought that, you know, you would think that always.

Michelle Shapiro [00:23:33]:
Because there's no.

Amanda Montalvo [00:23:35]:
There's no way to.

Michelle Shapiro [00:23:36]:
So you had to preserve the meat. That's fascinating. And not, we're not saying whether health at a certain time was better or worse. I'm talking about through human history, because it does really appear to me that we do need to add salt to food, and we do need to add electrolytes for us to be what we would consider optimally hydrated or really to avoid even clinical levels of dehydration. Yeah.

Amanda Montalvo [00:24:02]:
And I do think that there's a very big difference between, like, processed foods that have a lot of sodium versus, like, someone that's, like, salting their food. Because I get this kind of pushback online. A lot of, like, well, the majority of Americans are having way too much sodium because of the foods that they're eating. And I'm like, okay, but I'm not advocating for people to eat those foods. I'm advocating for people to eat whole, nutritious foods that they are primarily cooking at home or getting from a good source. So in that case, we absolutely need to add salt to our food, because otherwise there's. If it's, like, a fresh food, you're really not getting a ton.

Michelle Shapiro [00:24:40]:
There's really not naturally occurring sodium in many of the foods that we consume. I would assume outside, even, like, if you're eating something like seaweed, I'm like, something that's in the water or fish, there's nothing. A tremendous amount of sodium. It really would be in the curing process, the smoking process, the preservation process that you add salt to preserve.

Amanda Montalvo [00:24:58]:
Dairy has a little bit, but, yeah, it's like, the part, like, I think of, like, like, pickled foods, like, you know, fermented veggies. I think of, like, olives, like, canned sardines, you know, like, preserved, healthier foods, things like that. It's. If you're eating primarily fresh foods, you do definitely need to add it. The amount is just going to depend on who you are and your health history. And if someone listens to this, because, I mean, I'm like, obviously, we're very interested in health and wellness and understanding and supporting our bodies. If you do decide to add salt and go so slow, go so slow, because we don't want you to, how.

Michelle Shapiro [00:25:37]:
Will you know if you went too fast? Amanda? It's more the fluid retention you're talking about.

Amanda Montalvo [00:25:43]:
I don't know if you've seen this. We've seen this in a few of our clients lately. People having histamine reactions to the salt. Interesting.

Michelle Shapiro [00:25:51]:
I mean, also, is the salt coming from something that the electrolytes, also, if it's electrolytes, does it have citric acid in it or something too?

Amanda Montalvo [00:25:57]:
No, that could be just salt. Just plain sea salt. The only thing that didn't cause it for someone was table salt. Because I was like, we gotta experiment, because at this point, we tried so many different types of sea salt. They all flared, but then. Table saw.

Michelle Shapiro [00:26:13]:
Now I'm just interested. What were the actual reactions? Were they site specific flares?

Amanda Montalvo [00:26:17]:
What was it? It was like, redness around the mouth and cuts in the corners of the mouth, which I often see with immune stuff for people, especially the history of viral load and stuff. But, yeah, some people have. If people make soleil, I love Soleil. It's basically when you're just adding a ton of salt to water and letting it completely saturate that water. It just. I like it because it's easy to add to your water, and it, like, mixes in versus, like, you add sea salt, and it's kind of, like, all at the bottom, and then you're drinking the end, and you're like, I'm drinking the ocean. So Soleil doesn't do that, which is nice. And you can, like, titrate it better, because, like, a.

Amanda Montalvo [00:27:01]:
You know, if you think about a teaspoon of salt has, like, 2300 milligrams of sodium, a teaspoon of soleil water is going to have. I think it's around, like, 450 milligrams. So it's all. It's easier to, like, slowly add sodium to your diet that way, but it's really easy to make. But some people, even having small amounts of that, I think they're just very depleted in sodium, and so their body's, like, your body gets a little bit.

Michelle Shapiro [00:27:29]:
And then the processes it needs to do, it has enough nutrition to do them, and it almost maybe kicks off a little detox reaction or something like that.

Amanda Montalvo [00:27:37]:
And because they have the history of, you know, having a more sensitive body and, like, with the immune reactions, I think that they're just more sensitive to even.

Michelle Shapiro [00:27:47]:
I haven't seen that, but I believe every single one of your clients experiences, because I think a lot of my MCAS clients and a lot of people listening are also pots clients, which I'm sure yours are too, obviously, but not the ones that. That's what I'm saying. This is a fascinating conversation, Amanda, because for the pots, you know, for those listening, the recommendation for this syndrome, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, is 10 grams of salt per day. For context, if you have hypertension, high blood pressure, the recommendation is 1500 milligrams. So it's ten times what the recommendation would be. I find that people who have the dizziness, have the lightheadedness, they do so incredibly well with sodium. I'm curious if someone just has mcas but doesn't have pots if they would react differently. So this is just something for people to kind of think about while they're listening, too.

Amanda Montalvo [00:28:43]:
And if you have, and I mention it, because if you have a weird reaction and you have the histamine history, maybe you have history of gut issues or something, and that happens to you. Like, don't freak out. We just had to, like, doing the soleil really helped. Going a lot slower really helped. I just couldn't believe. I was like, wow, that is like a very.

Michelle Shapiro [00:29:01]:
And it's real. That's the experience they're having. And you're trialing each item so you know exactly what's causing what reaction. That's real science. You're watching this happen in real time with your clients. That is extremely interesting. And when it comes to sodium also, and I hope they're better now, obviously.

Amanda Montalvo [00:29:18]:
Yeah, yeah, we figured it out. It was just something. I saw it, like, three times in a month, and I was like, what is happening?

Michelle Shapiro [00:29:24]:
Very interesting. So let's talk about these electrolyte mixes when it comes to sodium also. So I find with my clients who have pots, they do really well. Element, which is LMNT. That one. They do fantastic with it, though. Like you're saying if we want that ratio of potassium to sodium to be four to one element has a reverse ratio almost. It has more than a reverse ratio.

 

How would someone know if they're like an element electrolyte person or a Paleo Valley electrolyte person?

Michelle Shapiro [00:29:47]:
It has a five to one sodium to potassium ratio. So how would someone know if they're like an element electrolyte person or a Paleo Valley electrolyte person? I think a lot more people do better if they don't have pots with something like a Paleo Valley, which has a really nice, who's our sponsor for this episode, who has a really nice mineral ratio. Tell us about that. What do you think?

Amanda Montalvo [00:30:11]:
Yeah, so the element is. It is, it is much higher sodium than potassium. I think there's only, like, 400 milligrams of potassium, or around there, it might be 200, even less. Yeah, it's like, much like you're not taking it for the potassium. Right. If you have pots and you need to be consuming a lot more sodium, it's helpful. If you're very low carb or keto, I think it's very helpful. If you do intermittent fasting, I think it's also helpful.

Amanda Montalvo [00:30:40]:
So I think for that, if you're.

Michelle Shapiro [00:30:42]:
Low carb, it's important to have sodium.

Amanda Montalvo [00:30:44]:
Because you're going to use up a lot more sodium. Typically, if you've been doing low carb or keto for a really long time and your body is, like, very well adjusted. You may not need that much more sodium than potassium. It really depends. But in general, like, I'm gonna generalize. I would say most of the time, you're gonna need a lot more sodium because you're, like, typically getting rid of a lot of those minerals. And then if someone has, like, insulin resistance, I would say they typically do better with a lot more sodium.

Michelle Shapiro [00:31:13]:
A lot more sodium?

Amanda Montalvo [00:31:14]:
Yeah. Because of the way that sodium helps get nutrients across the cell. And if you are someone, like, when it comes to the more potassium rich ones, we didn't even mention pickleball. That's like, pickleball. Rainy bumblebees.

Michelle Shapiro [00:31:28]:
Pickleball having its moment. Tell us about pickleball.

Amanda Montalvo [00:31:30]:
So pickleball or something like raby or bumble root powders. Those are, like, the coconut water dehydrate coconut water powders. They're very high in potassium. They're mostly just potassium. They have a little bit of magnesium, and I don't think, like, very teeny, tiny amount of sodium and a little bit of vitamin C. So they're great if you want a potassium source. I find that typically, if someone, like, if they eat more carbohydrates, if they're, like, extremely active, if they have really low potassium levels, like, maybe you've done a hair test and you see that if you're hypothyroid things like breastfeeding, pregnant things like that, it can be really helpful to have more potassium. I still like to add salt to it, though.

Amanda Montalvo [00:32:11]:
I don't want just straight that much potassium. It's too much. So I still tell people to add, like, a quarter teaspoon of sea salt, which is still going to give you. It basically ends up being, like, a two to one ratio of potassium.

Michelle Shapiro [00:32:24]:
I don't think you like a four to one ratio, even though, like, I don't think in practice you like that.

Amanda Montalvo [00:32:29]:
To be honest, I just don't actually, I've seen it. I've only really seen a few people need it. The people, like, I would say most people that we work with, it's closer to, like, a three to one or a two to one ratio. And oftentimes, depending on if they have the history with pots, one to one, you know, so. Or even, like, you know, the other way around. So it just really depends on the person. But it. It's also, like, I think it's so important to get enough sodium in, and you can only eat so much potassium, you know, so it's like, if someone rich foods, too.

Amanda Montalvo [00:33:03]:
Amanda, yeah, so potassium rich foods, I mean any animal food is going to have it. So like meat is a great source. Chicken, seafood, beef, pork, all great sources. And then if we think of more of like the plant sources, things like greenshouse, anything, any like veggie, I recommend cooking it because you want to be able to absorb the potassium. So like cooked greens, cooked beans, potatoes, squash, fruit has it. It's so much higher in other things though. Like people like, oh, I'm eating like fruit for my potassium. I'm like, it's not that high.

Amanda Montalvo [00:33:36]:
Like people think banana, like not that high. White potatoes, extremely high in potassium. Winter squash, very high in potassium. But even like, like salmon, super high in potassium. So it's like it doesn't have to be one or the other. I like a mix of plant animal foods for getting minerals, but you can, and then it's a typically dairy is a great source too. But it's like, yes, it's in a lot of foods. It's easy to get a lot.

Amanda Montalvo [00:34:02]:
But if someone's, you know, maybe they track and they end up consuming around like 3000 milligrams of sodium and they feel good with that. I don't think they need to eat 12,000 milligrams of potassium. You know, like that's insane.

Michelle Shapiro [00:34:15]:
So how much is in a potato? How much potassium is in one potato?

Amanda Montalvo [00:34:18]:
I think, I think if you do like a cup of potatoes, it ends up being like 600 milligrams coconut water.

Michelle Shapiro [00:34:25]:
You'Re talking about 12,000.

Amanda Montalvo [00:34:27]:
Yeah. And it's in, it's, there's amounts in like pretty much everything you're eating. So like it does add accumulate.

Michelle Shapiro [00:34:34]:
Right.

Amanda Montalvo [00:34:34]:
But I would say if you're being conscious of it, it's without supplements, just getting it through food, 5000 milligrams, it's, you know, it's doable, but you have to be very intentional with it. Yeah, so it's like, I don't know, I think it's something where you just have to like see what you do best with. And I'm like, I hate when people stress over little details like that that probably won't make or break their health, you know, and if anything, like they're gonna prevent them from seeing success. So I think that that ratio has been like a little bit overblown. And it's like you got to keep it in context to yourself depending on your health history and what you're currently eating too, is a big deal.

 

Can you describe how you can lower or increase blood pressure with potassium or sodium?

Michelle Shapiro [00:35:15]:
When I think of potassium, I'm more thinking about the capacity to lower blood pressure. And when I'm thinking about sodium, I think of the capacity to increase blood pressure. Is there a mechanism you can explain for that briefly to people?

Amanda Montalvo [00:35:27]:
Yeah. When it comes to potassium, it can basically, it's leading to that dilation of the blood vessels. It, like, will drop your heart rate quick. That's why with the potassium powders, I'm like, don't do it. Don't do it. If you have pots or the history of low blood pressure, even if you see low potassium on a test result, I would still be very conscious of that and talk about it with your provider and with the sodium, it's basically having the other work. It's constricting, and so it's going to make sure that you're pumping that blood, it's going to improve that blood volume. When it comes to potassium, it's going to drop it.

Amanda Montalvo [00:36:07]:
So they're both important. We just want to make sure that we have a balance of them and that we're having the right amount for us. Interesting thing, too, with those, like, something like pickleball specifically, even bumble root, probably. I don't know, because it's, it's slightly different because it's coming from coconut. Like, all the potassium is coming from the coconut water. But I had a few people in my masterminerals course, they're like, man, my blood pressure, like, dropped with pickleball, even though they added a ton of salt to it. And I was like, that's interesting. They didn't do a full serving.

Amanda Montalvo [00:36:42]:
They added a ton of salt. And then I was trying to figure out, because pickleball uses stevia and monk fruit as well, and stevia can cause low blood pressure. Did you know that?

Michelle Shapiro [00:36:51]:
Oh, I didn't know that at all. That's fascinating.

Amanda Montalvo [00:36:54]:
I wonder the mechanism behind that. And so I'll let you know. But there's, like, studies that show it lowers blood pressure, and you have to be, like, really careful.

Michelle Shapiro [00:37:06]:
That's extremely interesting. Yeah, it is an herb. Everything we've always learned about heart health is lower your blood pressure, lower your blood pressure, enhanced vasodilation, and as we know in our client populations, low blood pressure and a resultant high heart rate after your blood pressure or your heart rate goes too low is almost more common in a lot of our clients, honestly. So them focusing on only prioritizing potassium when it comes to hydration, only prioritizing potassium when it comes to their overall health is something I get very symptomatic when I have too much potassium and not enough sodium. I do much better. We've joked about this because Amanda knows I'm like a fish. Like, I could. I could probably drink seawater.

Michelle Shapiro [00:37:48]:
Just kidding. Dangerous. Don't do that. Yeah, exactly. It is so much better for me. This is a question I have for you, too. If people are ramping up their sodium intake and they're actually trying to do their potassium at the same time, and they do notice a little bit of fluid retention, is this something where you'd say, you got to keep going, and you'll hit a point where the water will come off? Is this something where you just say, it's just too much for you? How would you have people kind of think about that?

 

How do you recommend navigating fluid retention?

Amanda Montalvo [00:38:15]:
I think it depends on when the fluid retention started for them. If it was immediate, then I would be very tempted to say, back off and start over, because it's probably only going to get worse as you keep going. If you're like, hey, I was consuming this many milligrams, and I felt really good, and then all of a sudden, I just started to notice retention. There's a few things I think of. I'm like, where are you in your cycle? Because that's really important if you're a woman, because you, during that luteal phase, you're much more likely to have fluid retention. And I have seen this happen with clients where they were increasing it, and they're like, oh, no. All of a sudden, I'm like, I have a ton of fluid, and. Or I feel really bloated.

Amanda Montalvo [00:38:56]:
It feels like fluid retention. I'm inflamed. And then we look at their chart, and I'm like, it's probably not just the salt, so let's stay where you're at right now. That's probably what I would tell most people if you didn't start that way. Try to be consistent with what you're taking, but don't go up anymore. And you could just try adding a little more potassium in. Um, so maybe it is, and maybe you're already eating a lot of potassium rich foods, but you're like, okay, I'm going to add in, like, a. A little bit of pickleball or the bumble root powder or just coconut water.

Amanda Montalvo [00:39:24]:
You could just drink coconut water, too. Aloe vera juice, inner leaf. That version is very rich in potassium, and it's also really nice just for, you know, gut health, inflammation, if you've got reflux, all those kinds of things. So I love aloe. I think it's, like, a really nice herb to use for many things, but potassium, too so that's like usually a quick one where I'm like, okay, why don't we add a little bit of that and stay where you're at? I, and see if that changes things.

Michelle Shapiro [00:39:50]:
That in, are you like, are you taking it in a juice? It's like a juice.

Amanda Montalvo [00:39:54]:
Yeah, that, that's the one I took because that's where it's going to have the most potassium. I think, like, I think it's like a cup has like 800 milligrams or something like that.

Michelle Shapiro [00:40:03]:
Amazing.

Amanda Montalvo [00:40:04]:
Yeah, it's, it's good.

Michelle Shapiro [00:40:05]:
It's similar to 12,000 before.

Amanda Montalvo [00:40:07]:
Oh, I know.

Michelle Shapiro [00:40:08]:
You had, if I had three. It's just impossible to strike that ratio. No one can strike that ratio.

Amanda Montalvo [00:40:13]:
No one. Can I get it? Like maybe a research article said that it's optimal, but I'm like, that's not real life. And that's why it's like, I share it, because I'm like, this is the information.

Michelle Shapiro [00:40:23]:
Twelve cups of aloe vera juice. I mean, come on. I'm not getting there. I think you like ten potatoes. I mean, that it's just work well.

Amanda Montalvo [00:40:31]:
Because that's the other thing you have to keep in mind, like, minerals are important, but you also have to keep in mind like, okay, what is also important? Like a balance of protein to carbs, you know? So trying to make sure, okay, I need more potassium. But maybe you're dealing with a little bit of insulin resistance. And then you would say, okay, I'm going to try to get more animal foods that are rich in potassium and not overdo the carbs just because I'm trying to get potassium. And the other thing is like, our bodies are not calculators. It is so important to remember that. And you have to go based on your lived experience of how your body's responding to things. I like minimum effective dose personally, with myself, with everyone we work with. If, like, if you do really well, say you, I've, we've had so many clients that have like, they increase sodium and potassium.

Amanda Montalvo [00:41:18]:
It's not even by that much. Maybe they just get an extra like 2000 milligrams of potassium a day. So they're not even close to 4000 milligrams. But they're like, my bowel movements are better, my energy is better. I'm not having headaches like that sort of thing. It's like, okay, then don't obsess over the 5000. You know, it doesn't have to be like this. Perfection.

Amanda Montalvo [00:41:38]:
Same thing with the sodium, like for our pots clients, 10 grams can feel.

Michelle Shapiro [00:41:42]:
Very daunting, and it could not feel good too. You really would have to build up to that to just pound your body with 10 grams to start off with. I don't have any pots clients who even go up to that, to be honest with you. We usually can start along the way.

Amanda Montalvo [00:41:56]:
Yeah, yeah. It's like, I think in a lot of people, I'm like, do I have to track. Exactly. I'm like, no, no. Because you're tracking the symptoms.

Michelle Shapiro [00:42:04]:
Yeah, exactly. It's much more important, the symptoms, than hitting that actual number. And, like, that would be, again, for context, that would be, like ten element packets. You know, most people are, like, freaking out, drinking one of them because they're super salty. You know, when it comes to kidney disease, again, heart disease, it's worth mentioning that, again, because our kidneys and the hormones related to our kidneys will affect our fluid balance. Once you're in a state of kidney disease, it is often recommended to drop down on both potassium and sodium and phosphorus just because it requires kidney function to utilize and process these minerals. So it's just worth mentioning that it's. It varies so much from person to person, these recommendations.

Michelle Shapiro [00:42:52]:
I think that the ultimate recommendation, which was everyone should have 2300 milligrams of sodium. I think we're starting to just question that maybe more as time goes on. However, if you have specific conditions, again, if you have pots, if you have a kidney condition, and if you have high blood pressure, maybe, I don't know, maybe your sodium recommendations are different, but that's a bigger conversation. And again, if you do have pots, your potassium recommendations might be different. So I think it does take self experimentation and keeping these things in mind when we're adding electrolytes and minerals in. Another important thing you mentioned, Amanda, was that if we're eating all of our potassium and we're trying to get our potassium from food, and we're getting some from meat, we're getting some from potatoes, but we want to kick it into high gear with, like, aloe vera juice or something like that, you do have to be mindful of the fact that, again, it affects the rest of the nutrients you're getting from the food and the macronutrients. So that's why I think electrolytes and mineral powders are so helpful, because they're just, they're really good hacks, because you don't need to have the rest of the food in order to get your mineral status up.

Electrolytes and mineral powders are helpful to the body

Amanda Montalvo [00:44:00]:
Yeah. And it's nice. That's why it can be nice like, when they're a combination, it's not just one sole mineral. And if people always ask me, like, what's the best one out there? I'm like, it really depends on what you need on the person. And if you're not sure, I do think the one from Paleo Valley is pretty neutral. Right. It's got a nice mix of sodium, potassium. They're not quite one to one.

Amanda Montalvo [00:44:21]:
It's probably more like a two to one ratio of sodium to potassium. But they, and they have. It's all from food, you know, they're good. They have a little bit of calcium, a little bit of magnesium. The watermelon one?

Michelle Shapiro [00:44:33]:
Yeah. I just drank it literally before this call. I should have it in my hand. It's. It's incredible. And there's no citric acid, which is really helpful for people with MCATs too, because a lot of the electrolyte powders do have citric acid, and they're not that well tolerated.

Amanda Montalvo [00:44:45]:
Yeah, for sure. So it's. It's like, I feel like that's a good, neutral one. A lot of people ask me about. Oh, my gosh. Like, like so many different brands that I looked them up and they just don't have that many minerals at all in general. And I'm like, this is not necessarily bad, but it could help you absorb some of that fluid that you're drinking, but it's not going to, like, fix the deficiency, you know? So that's another thing to keep in mind. It's like, how much do you need? Are you actually deficient? Are you just looking for maintenance? And then, you know, even just this time of year, we're recording this in the summer.

Amanda Montalvo [00:45:16]:
It's really hot where I am. The amount I sweat is, like, ridiculous. And then, and I'm nursing right now on top of it, it's like, I need a lot of fluid, but that means I also need a lot of minerals to replenish as well. So it's like, you know, just keep it. Always keep it in context to you. And although, like, we can purchase them and just, you know, you can buy any supplement, doesn't mean that it's gonna go great. You know, you just want to always be mindful of what you're taking. They are powerful, that's for sure.

Michelle Shapiro [00:45:46]:
The, I just going to give an anecdote about how Amanda walks the walk. We were once in a. What do you want to call Amanda? A stressful social situation.

Amanda Montalvo [00:45:56]:
Call it that.

Michelle Shapiro [00:45:57]:
Where we met for the first time and fell in love, obviously, but we were in a stressful social situation. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'll pin it there. And Amanda had a bag of bumble root. And I think you, I think you had half the bag. I'm not even kidding. Like, it wasn't, we weren't sweating. We were indoors. But your stress signal you went through throughout the three days, we did go on.

Michelle Shapiro [00:46:18]:
Like, like me, you and Jillian went on secret hikes to talk about how distressed we were, where you also did carry the minerals with you, but you were crushing Amanda. I actually think you did ten servings that day, to be honest with you.

Amanda Montalvo [00:46:30]:
I might have, I might have overdone it. And I was adding salt to the bumble root. Don't worry. And I'm all like, does anyone want. This was also, like, years ago, before anyone even knew about it. Everyone's like, what are you drinking? I'm like, don't worry.

Michelle Shapiro [00:46:45]:
And it was a bunch of functional dietitians. And we were like, we're actually, we're actually good, Amanda. It looks like you need it yourself. You know, she's, I mean, anytime I've seen you in person, you do have minerals with you. You do walk the walk.

 

The importance of hydrating while breastfeeding and replenishing your minerals

Amanda Montalvo [00:46:56]:
I'm literally drinking some right now. I just feel like I do drink plain water. I do. It's just like, generally I feel so much better and I feel more hydrated. An interesting thing. I don't know if you want to talk about this, but, like, have you heard people discuss, like, breastfeeding third and breastfeeding hunger and how hungry? I think that these are actually, like, dysfunctional signs. I don't think it's normal. It's very normalized.

Amanda Montalvo [00:47:24]:
Like, oh, you're breastfeeding. You're going to be thirsty. Twenty four seven. I think that just means that those people were probably already dehydrated before they started nursing. And they're probably dehydrated on, like, a cellular level. Right. They really need those electrolytes. We use up a lot, electrolytes and minerals in general during pregnancy.

Amanda Montalvo [00:47:41]:
Like, we lose 10% of our minerals during pregnancy, and then you use even more after because you're producing breast milk if you're nursing, and then you are more stressed and you often have broken sleep. So you have so many mineral resources you're using up. So if you like, we don't have any studies that show that, like, potassium or electrolytes, like, significantly increase breast milk supply. But I'm like, there's, I've seen it in myself. I've seen it in clients where when they do consume them regularly, they have way better supply. They're not thirsty all the time.

Michelle Shapiro [00:48:14]:
It's literally a fluid composite coming out of you. So of course you're going to need the minerals for it.

Amanda Montalvo [00:48:19]:
No one's researching breastfeeding. You know, that's going to be the.

Michelle Shapiro [00:48:23]:
Last thing that people are researching, and it should be the first thing that people are researching. So are there actually, are there any studies that show in times of stress, in times of pregnancy, in times of breastfeeding, that our levels of minerals in the body are lower? Do we have those studies? Do we have, like, hair metabolism?

 

Are there any studies that show in times of stress, in times of pregnancy, in times of breastfeeding, that our levels of minerals in the body are lower?

Amanda Montalvo [00:48:44]:
We have studies to show how much we lose, like about 10% overall, like, during pregnancy. And then we know that our nutrient needs are higher, like postpartum. Even if you don't breastfeed after, your nutrient needs are still higher because you're recovering and there's so much to rehabilitate in the body. Like, I mean, you made an organ and then, you know, got rid of it. So, um, there, we definitely have higher nutrient requirements, but, yeah, that is a very normalized thing that I see all the time. Oh, I'm just like constantly, I'll get my water, like I'm breastfeeding and I'm like, okay, but please put minerals in it, please. The paleo valley ones would be great. Or like a bumble root with some sea salt would be great.

Amanda Montalvo [00:49:22]:
You definitely want potassium if you're nursing. Um, and I do my clients that even if they are nursing and they have the history of mcas pots, they still take in way more sodium than potassium. But it's like, I call them like mineral bombs. It's like an element packet with coconut water. You know, it's just like a mineral bomb go all out. Yeah, but it makes like a big difference.

Michelle Shapiro [00:49:48]:
So we know we lose minerals. Is there any storage of these minerals that we can tap into or you need to replenish them on a daily basis?

 

Is there any storage of these minerals that we can tap into or you need to replenish them on a daily basis?

Amanda Montalvo [00:49:56]:
It depends on the mineral. We definitely store minerals. The only one we don't really store a lot of is zinc, interestingly. So I would say for minerals that you want to get daily, for sure. Definitely sodium and potassium we can tap into stores, but it's like you're not going to be absorbing as much water you're drinking. You're definitely typically going to feel more fatigued, and that can lead to a lot of other unwanted, like, headaches, things like that. But zinc is actually one that I've come across in my research. I'm like, man, we don't really store a lot of zinc.

Amanda Montalvo [00:50:26]:
You know, like, we store iron in the liver. We store a lot of minerals.

Michelle Shapiro [00:50:30]:
I kind of wish we didn't store.

Amanda Montalvo [00:50:32]:
A lot of extra iron in the liver. It's also. Yeah, we kind of wish we didn't. And, like the spleen, right? So it's like something where, you know, we do store a lot of minerals. We can tap into that. But zinc, you really don't. And that's why it's when you get blood work done or a hair test done for zinc, it'll constantly be fluctuating and changing whether you're supplementing or not, because we use it up, like, say you have like some big inflammatory reaction in your body or an injury or something, then your body's going to take that zinc, bring it to wherever it needs it, but we just store very, very little of it. So I would say zinc is an important one.

Michelle Shapiro [00:51:13]:
I am scared of people overdoing zinc supplementation. And now, by the way, people are taking potassium, which is so I'm like, don't recreationally take potassium capsules or something like that. There's almost no circumstances with which I recommend people just take potassium. They have to test first. They absolutely have to test first. What are your concerns with zinc overload and just taking zinc for your quote unquote immune system all year? You know, since COVID I have clients who are coming in and they're taking like 70 milligrams of zinc a day for years on end. What are your concerns with that? I know.

 

What are your concerns with zinc overload and just taking zinc for your "immune system" all year?

Amanda Montalvo [00:51:46]:
Okay, so the one big concern I have with that is our iron status. Right. And because these are the same people that are like, my ferritin is one, my iron's really low. You know, my iron saturation is like 7%. And that's because zinc works with copper. They can be synergistic, but they are also antagonistic. And so if you're taking a lot of zinc, it's going to reduce how much copper you have available. And then that copper is what helps make iron available.

Amanda Montalvo [00:52:15]:
So this is why you would never want to take a zinc supplement with an iron supplement. You always want them to be separate. And ideally, we have things very silly.

Michelle Shapiro [00:52:23]:
To do that, by the way.

Amanda Montalvo [00:52:24]:
A lot of people do a lot because they don't know, and I don't blame anyone because it's like, again, whenever you're taking a supplement, I want someone to know exactly why they're taking it, how long they're going to take it for, and how are they going to know when they don't need it. Is it going to be maybe a test? Maybe it's a symptom, maybe it's a specific timeline based on a protocol you're doing. But we should have an end time for pretty much all supplements. I don't think it's bad to take zinc. I don't. But like you mentioned, like, so many people are just taking it because, like, oh, I was recommended this dose when I had Covid, and it's like, great for the short term, not great for the long term. And then another thing, and I talked about this inside highly sensitive body hub. I got the name right.

Amanda Montalvo [00:53:09]:
So proud of myself. Say it wrong every time. I talk about how, like, a lot of people have low iron and that can lead to histamine flares and mcas flares as well. And we're kind of like, okay, so this low iron is coming from inflammation for sure, or a virus because the body's gonna sequester that iron and hide it. But it can also, I think a lot of it is also because that population is also very heavily supplementing with things like, and then when they add in something like lactoferrin, which increases iron absorption in the gut, they, like, in our intestinal cells, they feel so much better and they stop having flares. So we have to be very careful with zinc supplementation. It's not that we're never going to do it, it's just you want the time in place. You want to know how much.

Amanda Montalvo [00:53:55]:
I don't like using more than, like 20 milligrams a day with people. And I like to also think about, you know, how long does it take to restore the zinc levels? We're never really going to know what they are overall, because if you do a blood test and you happen to, like, be really inflamed that day, your zinc is going to be low. If you do a hair test and say, like, clients that have long history of gut issues, mcas, things like that, the zinc's off the charts because their body's using it like crazy as long as they're not supplementing. But, you know, usually people coming to me know better with zinc.

Michelle Shapiro [00:54:27]:
So that concerns me with people with mkhdhdeme.

Amanda Montalvo [00:54:31]:
Yeah.

Michelle Shapiro [00:54:31]:
So people with mcas tend to take zinc because they also tend to be people who are hyper mobile. And we think of zinc regarding, like, collagen creation. We think of zinc regarding copper is.

Amanda Montalvo [00:54:44]:
Important for collagen creation. Copper.

Michelle Shapiro [00:54:46]:
I hear you, sister. Yes, exactly. So people come in often taking zinc supplements for a long period of time. Because doctors who are treating them or practitioners who are treating them for hypermobility will give them zinc. And then I have these huge iron concerns, huge copper concerns, and I think that people, again, who are taking zinc, I just see them being more flary.

Amanda Montalvo [00:55:06]:
Yeah.

Michelle Shapiro [00:55:07]:
In the long term. So I'm very, I'm always concerned about zinc. There's very few people, Amanda, that I would recommend zinc supplements to without you personally analyzing a hair mineral test and blood labs. And my clients know, like always, with their consent, that if it's a mineral question, I'm always, like, double checking and, and, you know, bringing it to you. But zinc is something that I'm always hyper cautious of for those reasons as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in ways of electrolytes versus minerals, which minerals are electrolytes?

 

Which minerals are electrolytes?

Amanda Montalvo [00:55:38]:
So sodium and potassium are our electrolytes. And then we have macrominerals. These are the minerals that we need in larger amounts. And then we have our micro or trace minerals. These are minerals that we need in much smaller amounts. And like electrolytes, can they also categorize as macrominerals. But the electrolytes specifically, those are the ones that are dealing with the fluid balance in the body.

Michelle Shapiro [00:56:03]:
Exactly. So I think, again, people are hearing the word minerals and electrolytes all over the place. Not every macro mineral is an electrolyte. Not all of them are related to fluid balance specifically. So when you're hearing electrolytes, you're going to be hearing about micro minerals, and you're going to be hearing about sodium, potassium, essentially, which regulate fluid in the body.

Amanda Montalvo [00:56:23]:
Yeah.

Michelle Shapiro [00:56:24]:
So your recommendation, I'm assuming, would be for most people to kind of start to have some level of consciousness around their minerals? Maybe. Do you think everyone on at some point in life is going to need some added minerals through an electrolyte or a mineral powder composite?

 

Do you think everyone at some point in life is going to need some added minerals through an electrolyte or a mineral powder composite?

Amanda Montalvo [00:56:43]:
I think it depends because there's, like, different types of people that we see, right. So there are people that are like, I'm gonna, I make the majority of my food, they eat a ton of potassium rich foods and they salt their food, or they like to add a little bit of sea salt to their water. Maybe they make soleil water or something of that nature. Those people, I don't think they necessarily always need to have an electrolyte powder. Usually they'll, maybe they'll drink, like, coconut water with sea salt once a day or a couple times a day, depending on the time of year, how much they're sweating, all that kind of stuff. And maybe they're just adding a sprinkle sea salt to their water a few times a day. So that's kind of, like, one scenario. And then we have people that are like, I don't have as consistent of a mineral intake for my food.

Amanda Montalvo [00:57:26]:
Maybe they want the convenience. Maybe they travel a lot. Maybe they're a mom. Maybe they're running a business, and they don't have as much time, and they want, like, that security of having a really high quality powder. I just love it. It is really easy, and it makes it so that you can't really mess it up. Right. So.

Amanda Montalvo [00:57:43]:
But I also get a ton of people that are like, how can I do this myself without that additional cost of a powder? And they're just not all created equal, that's for sure. And there's so many out there now. So that's when it's, like, I think most people could benefit, but if you're someone that you want to do it all yourself, I think that's totally fine, too.

Michelle Shapiro [00:58:03]:
And you can get there through food, obviously, but you have to. You really do kind of have to be conscious to stay hydrated. I think I also just from. I know we're talking about the minerals and the electrolytes when it comes to hydration, I'm a. Amanda knows this about me. Horrendous hydrator. It's a. It's a huge.

Michelle Shapiro [00:58:19]:
I just don't have, like, an app. I don't have a thirst. I don't have an appetite for fluids of any kind. I could go a very long time. I'm sure we could analyze this.

Amanda Montalvo [00:58:27]:
I was gonna say biologically exactly, but.

Michelle Shapiro [00:58:31]:
It'S been my whole life. It's just. It's. Honestly, it's probably because I think this is. I have a theory. I think it's because I had a history of acid reflux, so I don't like filling my stomach up, I will tell you. Also, historically, I don't have, like, an amazing appetite either. So when I drink a lot of fluids, then I just don't want to eat, because I don't like to have both my stomach full in both ways.

Michelle Shapiro [00:58:52]:
I mean, you know my body so well, Amanda, I'm assuming that's what it is.

Amanda Montalvo [00:58:55]:
I would agree. Yeah. I think especially with the appetite thing, too. It's. It's like. I'm like, what does Michelle run on? Like, how does she do it? I don't get it.

Michelle Shapiro [00:59:04]:
I run on love. I run on compassion. Other people's who? Oh, my God. I think it was Olivia who just said to me, she was like, what did you eat for breakfast? Like, the world's problems or something? And I was like, yeah, that was my breakfast this morning. You know, I always eat breakfast for anyone listening. Okay. But it is a very conscious effort for me to hydrate well. And I, because of that, I am always needing to add minerals to every, like, I have to make every ounce of water count, essentially.

Michelle Shapiro [00:59:31]:
I think what I like about all these powders, also, to be honest with you, even though, you know, we could get into a discussion of it not being, like, unprocessed, and we can get the most unprocessed versions, is that it also makes water taste better, which I think is awesome, too. Like, they all have a nice, a pleasant flavor. The ones that we're talking about. Even salt and water, I think is enjoyable to drink.

Amanda Montalvo [00:59:49]:
Yeah, I will say, especially having a two year old now. I mean, like, Eliana has always, like, she will drink plain water, but, like, the days we're outside, it's really hot. She's, like, sweaty, her face is all right. Like, she'll pound mineral drinks like she loves them.

Michelle Shapiro [01:00:05]:
And that's safe for kids, by the way. That's worth saying.

Amanda Montalvo [01:00:07]:
Yeah, and. But you definitely want the balance. A lot of people ask me, like, about sodium potassium in kids. It's like you just kind of think of yourself, and it's like a quarter of that, you know, like, 25% of what you would consume. Probably safe for most kids if they're really little. Probably closer to, like, an 8th of what you would consume. And I just dilute her drinks a lot more. And if she's drinking mine, she naturally drinks less.

Amanda Montalvo [01:00:30]:
It's very. Kids are so smart, like, their bodies are there, especially if they're very regulated. Like, they can make all those decisions. So I'm not, like, super crazy about hers. She has always had salt. There's a lot of controversy with salt, and, like, babies, but their kidneys are fully developed by six months, so it's like, they need salt. We don't want to overdo it, but they absolutely still should be having some salt in their food. So kids need minerals too, but it really does encourage them to drink more.

Amanda Montalvo [01:01:00]:
She likes the paleo valley powders a lot, too.

Michelle Shapiro [01:01:02]:
And they're pink, like, the ones pink. Like, how much more fun can you get than, like, the pink powder with no citric acid in it? So far, so happy about that. And it really does taste very refreshing for summer. And also, do our hydration needs. This is a very simple question. Do our hydration need seasonally change? Seasonally do our hydration needs change seasonally?

 

Do our hydration needs change seasonally?

Amanda Montalvo [01:01:23]:
Yes. So if you, if you're losing more water, you'll lose a lot in your sweat, like other minerals as well, mostly sodium and potassium. You lose some magnesium, a little bit of calcium. Everything else is kind of like trace amounts. But the more you're sweating, the more I'm like, you need to replace those even more. And some people have a heart, I think people that are like, I have a hard time sweating, you know, if they have, like, thyroid issues, um, then you are, you are losing less minerals, and that would likely not be true for you, but for people that are, you do need to replace them a lot more. You'll notice a difference. I, when you do or don't, you typically will get a lot more headachy.

Amanda Montalvo [01:01:57]:
If you do have mcaus, you'll have a lot more flares when you're not hydrating with minerals, things like that. So that is very, very important. And then the times of the year that you're not sweating as much, it is a lot colder. It's like, you can still hydrate yourself with other drinks. Like, you can hydrate yourself with things like bone broth if you tolerate that. Teas, or especially, like, herbal teas are very rich in minerals. They count.

Michelle Shapiro [01:02:20]:
That counts as a fluid.

Amanda Montalvo [01:02:21]:
Yeah.

Michelle Shapiro [01:02:22]:
And especially ones like oat. Like, if you would get, like, a beautiful herb, like, oat straw that has a lot of micro minerals in it, too.

Amanda Montalvo [01:02:29]:
Oh, yeah. I mean, literally, like, nettles is a high, great source of potassium, you know, and that's a great one for histamines, too. But I love that one for period pain, too, and, like, blood clots and stuff, but, yeah, so it's like, teas are another one, so you can hydrate a little differently. But I'm definitely not as, like, aggressive at hydrating those times of the year because you're just not using as much. Ideally, we're sleeping more. You know, hopefully if you're kind of, like, living with that circadian rhythm and your body is just, like, in more of, like, a rested state.

Michelle Shapiro [01:03:03]:
Also, we had a client who said, when I started drinking nettle tea, my periods got longer, and she was concerned about it. And I said, my first question was, well, what were her cycles before? Because her cycles before were, like, 23 days. And I was like, yes, they're getting longer because it's probably helping to regulate your hormones and cycle, actually, if anything. Like, so she was concerned about it. I was like, no, it's. It's actually, you know, it just goes to show you with any of these kind of questions that we have about our bodies, about anything that changes we're nervous about. And sometimes the changes are awesome. So that's just something to think about, too.

Michelle Shapiro [01:03:37]:
All right. This was incredibly helpful. Is there anything we missed about hydration, Amanda, that you think is really important?

 

Will caffeine dehydrate you?

Amanda Montalvo [01:03:43]:
Maybe. I just think a common question of, like, caffeine, will caffeine dehydrate me? Like that sort of thing? I get that one a lot. So caffeine, whether it's, like, I think of coffee or tea primarily, I don't. So does, like, you know, we're not really promoting drinking soda, so we'll just focus on coffee and tea. But those are primarily made up of water. And they do have caffeine, which can have a little diuretic effect, but it's just, just, it's not so much that it's going to cause, like, deep dehydration. If you are drinking coffee on an empty stomach, it can sign, signal your stress hormones much higher than they would naturally be signaled, and that could lead to a lot more peeing, dehydration, things like that. But if you're, you know, I always recommend having a caffeinated beverage after you eat breakfast so that you're not having a stressful response in the body.

Amanda Montalvo [01:04:37]:
But then, like, dehydration is very small, and when you look at, like, how much you're actually losing. But I. Some people do notice a big difference, and that's when I'm like, how are you drinking it? Like, when are you drinking it? How much are you consuming? Are you Hydra? Do you, is that the first thing you're having for the day? Because I like to have people have, like, a little sea salt and water when they first wake up. So I think it just depends on how you're using it, but it's not super dehydrating.

Michelle Shapiro [01:05:01]:
So what you. There's. There's a nugget there that I want to elaborate on, too. So when you're stressed, your stress hormone cortisol will influence aldosterone and their relationship. Aldosterone will affect whether your body, again, maintains fluid or releases fluid. So stress can also really affect hydration status as well and how much fluid you're retaining, because you can be really swollen from stress and still be dehydrated. And I think people are really scared to up their minerals and up their water when they're already swollen, but I really find it, and there is this little, like, I don't know what's called, like, a whoosh. Effect where when you do strike the right amount of hydration, at some point the fluid actually comes off.

Michelle Shapiro [01:05:44]:
And I really have noticed this. It's not like how weight loss people, you know, weight loss experts, quote unquote, are like, when you heal your trauma, the fluid just comes off. Like, it's not. Yeah, it's not like that. But, but quite literally, when you get your minerals at the right balance, I have seen it happen where clients just suddenly, like, feel that fluid come off a little bit too.

Amanda Montalvo [01:06:02]:
Yeah. And it also is like, it can be, if you're, again, if you're super stressed and you're really depleted, it can be a big shock to your body and there is internal adjustment that has to occur. So I think, too, it's like we want everything to happen, like, immediately. I think it's so important to pay attention. Always pay attention to your symptoms. They are communicating with you. But if you say you have testing and you're working with someone, then, and this happens, share your concerns with them and then know that it's likely just that you are so depleted and so stressed and there's other changes you have to make and be consistent with that, it will even itself out. But if you're not working with someone, that's like a hard, that's a hard one, because you don't know, you know, is this right or is this wrong? So it's always nice to have that support.

Michelle Shapiro [01:06:49]:
Absolutely. I think the main messages or takeaways I want people to have is that, that naturally, many of us will be unknowingly dehydrated or unknowingly depleted in electrolytes and that we can replenish them through food. A little bit hard for the electrolytes specifically, so there are different balances and types of electrolyte supplements we can take. We talked about in this episode also sodium versus potassium. Who would do better with that kind of ratio? What kind of ratio? We're like, we're looking to strike. And also just being really mindful again that your hydration needs go up during times of breastfeeding, during pregnancy, during summer, during any time that you're losing water or you're really stressed, your hydration and mineral needs are going to move up and go up.

Amanda Montalvo [01:07:33]:
I love it.

 

How can you find and work wtih Amanda Montalvo?

Michelle Shapiro [01:07:34]:
I love it. I love you. And thank you so much. Amanda, where can people find you? I'm joking because like everyone, I feel like if you know one of us, you know both of us at this point, where do you find you? Amanda Montalvo, how do they find you? The mother of minerals.

Amanda Montalvo [01:07:48]:
The mother of minerals. I need to change that. My website, so you can find me on Instagram, hormone healing rd if you like to listen to podcasts, which I'm assuming you do if you're here, you can listen to the are you menstrual podcast anywhere podcasts are found or watch on YouTube. And then my website is hormonehealingrd.com dot.

Michelle Shapiro [01:08:07]:
And you can, you know, I'm actually, I'm going back for a second. I'm like, are we doing mother mineral? Because that's another option, by the way. I'm just like, I'm not. I'm not settled until we. I feel really good about that. Feels good inside of me, I'll tell you.

Amanda Montalvo [01:08:19]:
That.

Michelle Shapiro [01:08:20]:
Mother Mineral, Amanda is also in the HSB hub talking about minerals, too. So if you are a member, please don't miss Amanda's videos. They are beyond incredible. Like every single thing she does.

Amanda Montalvo [01:08:30]:
I love you.

Michelle Shapiro [01:08:30]:
I'll see you, I'm sure, next season or very, very soon. And thank you so much for coming on today.

Amanda Montalvo [01:08:36]:
Thank you for having me.