Transcript 

Healing Anthems: Songs That Healed Us with the Whole Team

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:00:00]:

Wow, what a sight I'm seeing with all the ladies, all of us together. What a joy. So this is a very special. It almost feels like when you had those nineties sitcoms and there was, like, the episode where you would have the kids from, like, different schools coming together for a Christmas party, and you're like, oh, my God. All the storylines are converging. That's what this episode feels like for me, that we're all together on it. So I'm very, very, very excited because we do get to meet all together normally, but we haven't met all together on the pod. So I first wanted us to introduce everyone on the team.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:00:33]:

I want you all to introduce yourselves. Nicki, you have been on the podcast, of course, many times, but I still want you to, like, do a Nicki intro and tell us what kind of framed your personal or professional experience. And I'm going to spoil out what this episode is going to be. We are going to talk about what I'm calling healing anthems. What sort of songs either brought us through, like, dark nights of the soul, healing crises, medical crises, crises for our clients and what brought us through. So I first just want us to, like, reintroduce ourselves, and then we'll get into our songs.

 

Meet Nicki Parlitsis

Nicki Parlitsis [00:01:09]:

So, Nicki Parlitsis, a registered dietitian and certified personal trainer. I used to work in a completely different career, but always was interested in nutrition due to my own chronic digestive issues and past relationship with food. You know, journey, let's just say it had its ups and downs. So I went back to school, got my masters in nutrition and dietetics, and now love working with clients to help them through their, you know, digestive issues, healing their relationship with food, whether that's eating disorders like bulimia or binge eating, just emotional stress eating basically, kind of using food to cope as a coping mechanism. And we kind of talk about different strategies to turn to in addition to the food. So that doesn't feel like your only source of joy, let's say. So kind of finding joy through their life again, which kind of is very much in line with this episode and music, because I've found that it's really easy to lose joy on a healing journey. And sometimes music is the most accessible thing when it's hard to be social again, and it's hard to feel like you leaving the house or whatever it may be that you're experiencing.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:02:28]:

And so sometimes putting on a song that you love and singing along to it for two minutes can be your entryway to finding joy again. And also clients who are dealing with anxiety or mental health struggles and kind of helping them with that bottom up approach to nutrition. And again, it's the same concept in terms of, like, really just finding that joy again.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:02:51]:

Thank you, Nicki. That was beautiful. Nicki, you're also our lead dietitian, and you have, in addition to your client skills, you kind of keep us all sane and keep everything going. So we really need you to use these healing songs to be okay so we can all be okay. Cause we rely on you so much. So thank you for that music. And Nicki, obviously, Nina, the most amazing Nina, like, introduce yourself, please.

 

Meet Nina

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:03:16]:

Hi, I'm Nina Pasaya saro. I am a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, and similar to Nicki, I had a previous career and decided to change paths along the way. I was a speech language pathologist for many years, but I still really pull a lot from my clinical experience into the way I work with clients today and also bring a lot of nervous system regulation embodiment practices into my. My clinical work now as well. So I love that we're talking about this topic, too, because so often I'll tell clients to listen to a song and really feel into whatever emotions the song wants to evoke for them and to just give a background of how I got here. I myself was very sick for many years and just got sick and tired of being sick and tired, which I think many of our clients feel. And it really set me onto this journey of trying to uncover what is really going on in my body, and why is my body continually responding this way. I had gut issues.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:04:25]:

I had a lot of hormone issues, and then also mental health struggles as well, which all kind of came together and revealed, you know, themselves along the way, which is why I think it's also so important to not only look at the body from this physical perspective, but also the mental emotional perspective as well, and how that might be influencing how somebody's body is physically showing up on a day to day basis. And in terms of, like, clients that I love to work with and where my heart has kind of gone, in terms of who I work with, gut health and hormone health more specifically. And then mother's postpartum conception is something that's really, really near and dear to my heart these days. So we love supporting the mamas.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:05:12]:

Yeah. With the cutest baby in the world. I understand why. I think I get it. You know, Nina, I also feel like you. It's really powerful how you take this, the SLP, you know, speech language pathology degree that you had. We literally had a session this is an absolutely true story. 30 minutes ago, Nina was drawing from that experience in the session that you have with the client and was referencing something, and I was like, oh, only a speech language pathologist would know this.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:05:38]:

But you have a really beautiful way of weaving in all these different parts of health from your personal and professional journey. And I think it's so helpful to clients because a lot of people would miss what you pick up on, and I think that's part of your superhero powers, even though you have many. So just for people listening to understand. Also, Nina is the only practitioner on our team who runs functional lab tests. And I think that's just really important to emphasize because often when we get functional lab tests, we're given a list of supplements and to see you later. But if you're working with Nina, she might literally send you a song to listen to as a result of what she sees in your GI map test. And I think that really sets you apart. And I'm so happy you're here and obviously so happy we get to work together, and it's amazing.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:06:21]:

And thank you for sharing that all with us, too.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:06:23]:

Thank you.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:06:25]:

Jess. Jess.

 

Meet Jessica from the team

Jessica Haskin [00:06:29]:

I'm Jessica Haskin, or Jess Haskin. I'm a registered dietitian. You know, would say I got into this field in a pretty traditional route. Probably why a lot of people got into nutrition and healthcare. Honestly, similar to Nikki, I had my own fair share of GI issues from the time I can remember, but that's not actually why I went to pursue nutrition. I had, like, two life experiences when I was a teenager, you know, one with a family member, my aunt having cancer, and later passing away from it. But the role that nutrition played in that experience, which was maybe more of a negative connotation around nutrition and food based on what I experienced. And then I had a kind of opposite experience with my dad, who went to what we now call functional medicine doctor, but at the time, didn't even have a name for it, you know, 20 years ago, and kind of reversed what would have been a chronic illness, diabetes, heart disease, things like that, through food.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:07:35]:

And that was such a positive experience for me. It kind of changed the way my family ate, not just him. And that's kind of what brought me, you know, to really seeing there's so much that we can do through food to change someone's life for the better. And that's. That's why I ended up in nutrition and the nutrition field. And then as I went through, I again, like I said, did the traditional route. And as I went through clinical practice and working in clinical settings, my mind just kind of kept going back to, there has to be a better way than thinking about just a gastrointestinal component or just a mental health component or just a heart disease or cardiac component. And don't get me wrong, I think I benefited from some of that western medicine and those specialties, but it just couldn't help my clients or patients in the way that I wanted to.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:08:39]:

And kind of how I ended up in this more integrative and functional space, similar to what Nina said, like looking for the why around not only my symptoms, but I, you know, why are my patients experiencing this? Why are my clients reacting in this way and how can I improve that?

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:09:02]:

And then Jess, I'll chew your horn too. Which, you know, besides the fact that just from a personality standpoint, Jess, you have like a tremendous instant warmth. And the word I would use to describe Jess is like, you're just a person who gets it. Like, you just meet few people in your life who like, get it. And Jess, you just get it. Like, you meet people, you understand people in a really connected way. And then on top of that, you have aggressive clinical experience in the gut health world. You've been working in gut health for now, it's close to nine, eight and a half years, basically working exclusively in gut health.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:09:38]:

So if there's any specific symptoms someone has or anything where they just, you know, even doing all the stuff that everyone else has done, they just aren't getting better, Jess is going to catch what's that little thing? Also, just because you're so, you've literally seen it all at that point, you know, with the thousands of people that you've worked with in the gut health space, and that combined with your such natural, you know, compassion and ability to connect with people, I think sets you apart so much too. So I'm so grateful you're here too, and that your warmth touches all of us all the time. So thank you for that. I, and thank goodness for your experience because our clients get to experience the benefits of the very, very serious clinical work you've done too.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:10:20]:

So happy to be here.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:10:22]:

Woo. And on the pod together, all of us. I love it. Okay, Sarah. Sarah, talk to us.

 

Meet Sarah

Sarah [00:10:29]:

Hello, I'm Sarah. I am also a registered dietitian. Nutritionist. I went back to school to become a dietitian after first career, a startup, a health and wellness startup in LA. We sold healthy food at a better cost to people, trying to make it sustainable and attainable. And actually, similar to Jess, I'm learning some connections that we have here. I also had an aunt with cancer, and while she was going through treatment, she had a lot of these. I feel like that's one of the big ways that we come through, to become dietitians through family.

 

Sarah [00:11:08]:

And she had all these, like, handouts from the hospital, and, you know, treatment is exhausting. She had a hard time going through them and was just like, what? What do I need to do here? Like, what is the deal with nutrition? And in kind of, like, reviewing these handouts and all this information, I started cooking for her through her treatment. I love to cook and do recipe development and all that good stuff, and I realized that this could be a really awesome career. So went back to school, also wanted to learn more about the nutrition space and what recommendations we should really be adopting versus what was marketing. And while functional and integrative nutrition have always really been my focus and my passion, I did take a couple years to explore the clinical theme after matching with a hospital based internship in New York. My latest role in the hospital, which I'm no longer working with heart and lung transplant patients in the ICU, overseeing the nutrition aspects of their journeys. And while, you know, I've enjoyed my time there, my true passion has always been working with clients in more of, like, a preventative space. And, yeah, so I love working with clients to face whatever health issues that they're experiencing and really cultivating that healing journey and looking at it through a lens of what we can, what foods we can try and using food as medicine and how we can use foods to heal in terms of specialties, anything clinical that we can optimize outpatient.

 

Sarah [00:12:52]:

I love working with clients in that sense.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:12:56]:

Oh, Sarah, what can I say? There's so much I can say. The first thing is, you know, Sarah brings clinical expertise from people who are in, you know, very intense critical care situations. And having that level of clinical understanding, it takes a huge breath of knowledge and education, and you have to be wildly detail oriented, which, it's almost a joke how detail oriented Sarah is. I will also just tell you that from the day Sarah started working the practice, we have been training for MCAs clients and pots clients. So Sarah's really been a go to for me, for highly sensitive bodied clients. And, you know, Sarah, what I will tease you for is you're healthy. You know, Sarah is definitely a healthy person. I'm looking at me and Nikki, I'm like, sarah's healthy, right? You know, we've all been through it.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:13:45]:

Sarah hasn't. But what I'll say is what I love so much about you, Sarah. You have both this capacity, that is, you have such a high resilience and such a high capacity to hold other people and what they need. And at the same time, you're so sensitive and so compassionate, but you have this natural leadership ability because you're good. I don't know how I'll say it. Like, Sarah's good. You'll never find Sarah not good. She's.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:14:12]:

Except for if she's writing up a client plan and it's taking her 20 hours, and she's like, do you think this exact sentence is going to affect them negatively? Do you think that they'll like this? And I'm like, sarah, you're okay, sarah. They're going to love your 18 page plan you wrote up for them. I promise. You know, when Sarah writes notes, even in the session, they're 20 pages. I'm like, did you write this? When did you write this? You care more than anyone, and you have the physical capacity and the emotional capacity to do that. And we need you for that. And this space needs you for that. Some of us are going to be the ones who have come out of the hole, and some of us just need to be good so that we can take on a lot.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:14:46]:

And I love that about you. Your detail oriented nature, your warmth, your humor, your. I mean, a million things about all of you. Your clinical expertise is exceptional, and it has come really in handy, especially with this population. It's been really, really amazing. So the reason I'm also laying this kind of groundwork for who everyone is and kind of the roles that they play is because as we go into this conversation again, I'm already anticipating what kind of songs, and none of us know what songs each other picked, by the way, for what songs are our healing anthem. But I already. I have a feeling, and I want you guys to, like, see in your heads, like, what genre is that person gonna pick? But I have a feeling about where each person's gonna go, and I wonder if the listeners will catch it, too.

 

How Michelle used songs to give her resilience and strength during tough times

Michelle Shapiro [00:15:28]:

So I'm very greedy. I'm doing two songs, so I guess if I'm, like, re introing myself or if anyone's new and listening to this episode I had in my life, two healing crises. One, my first healing crises, or crises, I want to keep saying it wrong the whole time. It's fine. Was when I had 100 pound weight loss, and as a result of that 100 pound weight loss developed really substantial anxiety, panic disorder, digestive issues because of the really rapid nature of it. So I had both the disordered eating piece of that and also the physical pain of that. After I was able to kind of move through that, I then moved in for many years, had pretty stable health, and then in the past few years had a neck injury, combined with long Covid mcas pots, hypermobility, all these things we talk about, which I think that the first health crisis for me really helped to build resilience for my next one. But I could not have anticipated how scary things got, and I could not have known or prepared myself for what I would have called that, like, dark night of the soul.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:16:38]:

So my normal strategies would be, and even music is always a healing agent for me. So I kind of had to do some different styles of music therapy for myself. And the first one was I really just, you know, I said this in a different episode of living in a highly sensitive body. I was looking in the mirror one day, and I said to myself, like, there's just, you know, I was in a neck brace. My heart rate when I was standing, going from sitting, standing once, like, 160, I could not hear through my ears. Like the. This, like, brick feeling in my ears. I could barely visually see because my eyesight was so blurry and cloudy.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:17:17]:

And I was like, I saw myself in the mirror, and I was like, you're just never gonna make it through this. And I at as a response to that 1 second later was like, hey, you're never going to say that again, Michelle. To Michelle. And I'm obviously talking to myself out loud, of course, when I'm alone. And I was like, you can never say that again, basically. So kind of the first thing I had to do was put myself into what I would call more of, like, a tough mindset or like, a more militaristic mindset, where I was like, we just need to muscle through this a little bit, which is not my, like, normal approach. So I chose for my first song, I won't back down by Tom Petty. And what I think is important to talk about when we talk about Tom Petty is that Tom Petty also suffered from excruciating back pain his entire career.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:18:08]:

He would tour with terrible chronic back pain, and that ultimately led to him having to take painkillers, which unfortunately led to his passing. But so much of Tom Petty's lyrics resonated with me, both personally, because he had this resilience about him. And also a lot of the songs that I resonate with when I'm in that low state is songs of rebellion. You know, like, we're not going to take it. Twisted sister. Like those kind of songs where I'm like, I don't even know what, man. I'm fighting the man of chronic illness, but I got to take the man down. That's kind of what helps me in those moments.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:18:40]:

So I'm going to read the lyrics. And I used to play this when I couldn't even walk around my block, which is like a half a mile. Walk all the way around. I couldn't walk like 0.1 mile without my heart rate going crazy. I just would put the song on and say, even if you can walk five steps, just do this. And the lyrics are simple because it's a lot of what the title is, but, well, I won't back down no, I won't back down you could stand me up at the gates of hell but I won't back down no, I'll stand my ground I won't be turned around and I'll keep this world from dragging me down gonna stand my ground and I won't back down so I just was. I needed to get for me, like, activate my fight trauma response. And that song just hit in the right way where I was like, again, I don't care if you walk a step or ten steps, but for me, I had to get into that fighter mentality, and that was really, really important to me.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:19:37]:

Alternatively, when I was coming out of that really big bout of illness, I then had quite a grieving period that happened after. So that resulted in me wanting to kind of lead into songs that I feel like had a component of rebirth where I was like, I'm never going to be the same after what I just experienced. And now I'm different. And I need to, like, let that down, that piece of me, and come back and rise, like a little bit phoenix like, is what it felt like to me. And by the way, I am extremely emo and extremely dramatic. So it's not even a. It shouldn't be a surprise to any listener that I would choose an emo song and a classic rock song. Like, of course, because I only have, like, two modes, which is, like, emo or rebellion.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:20:28]:

Those are only two modes. But this song is called Waste by my favorite band, brand new, which these poor, amazing women in this group have heard more than enough about, and the lead singer of the band. And I'm going to be talking about lyrics today. And the reason we're not playing the songs is I'm definitely afraid of copyright issues. I don't want the song to be taken down, by the way. So that's why we're reading the lyrics or talking about them. This song was written by the lead singer, jesse Lacey, who, in his final tour, basically had, like, a farewell album. Like, science fiction was like, hey, guys, I can't do this anymore.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:21:05]:

Like, touring and being a musician is, like, tearing me up, so I need to let go. And that is what it felt like for me when I was coming out of the sickness, is that I needed to let go. So this particular paragraph is probably the most impactful in my healing journey of any paragraph of a song that's ever existed to me. And so this is waste by brand new. And this is the cap. It's very emo. Just, you guys, you gotta bear with me. It's very emo.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:21:32]:

Whoever's listening, okay. I'm hoping that in time, you can lay down all this weight you've been carrying around and maybe one day you'll find your way to climb on up out of your grave with the bits of you you managed to save. And for the last time, you say goodbye. And what that means to me is. And what? I've sent this song to a lot of clients before. I also sent why not? By Hilary Duff to a client recently, but I've sent this song to clients before because, again, it's not like we're. It's that we're changing for the better, but we need to let rest the parts of us that we need to let rest. And if that's that identity with chronic illness, we need to release it.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:22:12]:

And we need to say, oh, my God, that was so awful. And also, I'm not carrying this burden anymore in whatever way I can, from an emotional standpoint, release it. That is. Those are my two songs. So that was very greedy. And again, every person in here is going to have completely different genre, completely different things that resonate with them. There's people who could be irritated by rock and roll music. There's people who could be feel like, I don't want to fight anymore.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:22:40]:

I want to surrender. So you have to go with the songs that fit your personality, which is why I wanted all of our personalities here, because we're all going to bring something different to the table, right? Even though we're quite similar in some ways, we all have these differences in our personality. So I think we'll just go in the same order. Nicki, do you wanna give us your song?

 

The songs in Nicki's healing anthem during her healing and emotional embodiment practice

Nicki Parlitsis [00:22:58]:

I was laughing when you said that you picked two because I was going back and forth between. You could have two. So for me. Part of what I've noticed, honestly, in the past couple of years about my healing journey is that most of my. I mean, none of us here are surprised that most of the. My personal symptoms were caused by I have a tendency to repress my emotions. So, like, if I could be feeling extremely sad or extremely frustrated or extremely disappointed, but I will never let people see that I'm feeling that. And even though I live alone, like, I have a tendency to still just not release whatever I'm storing down.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:23:39]:

So, a lot of my specifically GI symptoms, but also when I was having more binge tendencies, it was kind of, like, this way to calm down this nervous system that's just been, like, trying to hold this body that's been trying to hold on to all of this stuff constantly. So I have two playlists, basically. So I have a song from each of those. So the first is my playlist called feels. It's literally just something. It's all, like, slow, sad songs because I'm like, I need something to make me cry. Because I won't just cry. Like, it just won't happen.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:24:17]:

So I actually have to, like, look back my calendar. Like, the biggest Capricorn thing I've ever heard in my life that I'm like, okay, I haven't cried in, like, a week and a half. I should probably cry soon. Like, kind of, like, what happens to me, so I have to kind of, like, let it out of. But one of the songs, I'm also big on emo music, and so, funny enough, that playlist is usually not a lot of emo songs, but the song called safe by all time low, which is my all time favorite band ever, they have a song called safe that is sometimes, like, if I'm in a mood, it makes me cry. But, like, it also just is kind of, like, this nervous system reminder that, like, you're safe. Like, you're gonna be okay. It.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:25:01]:

It feels, like, horrible, but you're going to get through it. So there's one verse that most of the chorus says. Take a little time to dry your salty ocean tears if you need it then you don't have to explain? So put the car in drive and don't stop running till you're long gone you're going to be all right if you just stop thinking it over. So the last line, like, it just hits home for me whenever I'm in that mode. But after that over, I can't sit in that for too long because it's like, okay, we let it out now we have to move on. Like, we have to just let it go. So this is where I think it's funny, because I am not a country music girl.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:25:41]:

But she's not bringing music to this.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:25:43]:

Right now, are you?

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:25:44]:

Oh, I'm bringing country music. Shania Twain is my girlfriend.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:25:48]:

Completely different conversation.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:25:49]:

No, she's like, pop country. It's. This doesn't count. So it's classic Shania Twain up by Shania Twain. Like, she's just for a while. When I was going through a really tough personal time last year, emotionally, and I used to have my alarm clock play up in the morning. Cause I literally didn't want to get out of bed, and my alarm would go off. I would hit snooze constantly, wouldn't get out of bed.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:26:14]:

Just felt horrible. And this song would play when my alarm would go off, and it would help me kind of just, like, get started for the day. So everyone kind of. I mean, I'm sure you know the song, but basically, you know, she's saying it's about as bad as it could be. Nothing's coming easily when everything's going wrong. Don't worry, it won't last for long. It all. It's all going to come around.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:26:39]:

Don't go let it get you down? You got to keep on holding on. And so she's basically saying, like, you're. You're kind of at your lowest. So, good news. We're only going up from here. So that's kind of, like, what I needed at that time for, like, mentally. But also, it's a song, and I say this to my clients all the time. Like, there's got to be that one song that you can't hear it without dancing.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:27:03]:

Like, you hear it, and your body just has to move, even if it's like a little shoulder bop, whatever you have going on. Like, that's sometimes what you need to kind of get your brain out of something because you kind of brings you back into this, like, body like, place. Yeah.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:27:21]:

Nick, you know what I love about your song choices? That it's like, if I was thinking of a graph or, like, a line, it's, like, safe and then up, right? So it's like, you first have to, like, stabilize yourself and experience and feel, and then you can start to lift yourself up after. Also, just, you know, the gratitude I have again, for anything, any tool in the world that helped support your healing this year, I just have the most gratitude for, because, like, the world can't go on without Nicki. That's all I'm saying. So I'm so grateful for Shania Twain and all time long, Nicki's all time favorite band, which we will be, I'm sure, dancing. And I'll be dislocating joints dancing with you soon, listening to them. Thank you for sharing that so much, Nicki. Nina, tell us.

 

What is the science behind sound healing?

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:28:09]:

Okay, so I also want to mention, because I did sound healing for a long time, and I feel like this is an important part of what we're talking about, is why sound really helps us heal. Because the vibrations in the music really do evoke emotions in you. So just like Nikki was saying that she would put certain songs on. Cause she knew she needed to cry, but she just couldn't access it. That's why music is so powerful, because the vibration of the voice, but of the instruments that are also being played in the song, really have each of them have their own frequency, which then correlates to an emotion, to then evoke that emotion within you. Right? So I think it's just like, it was so beautiful how you shared that, because it just shows the testament. Like, it's not just, okay, I'm gonna put music on because music makes me happy or it makes whatever. There really is this scientific background to why we resonate with music so much.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:29:09]:

Literally resonate with it. Right. Because the vibration is truly, you know, evoking something in us and touching something in us.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:29:17]:

So that's so important. You just said that. Oh, yeah. This is a science podcast. Thank you, Nina, for that. Bringing science to it. Exactly. We were so sappy.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:29:24]:

But no, really, that is so profound, Nina. And that's so important to acknowledge. And again, it's like each person's on a different vibrational frequency. So you really have to find the music in the song that either can pull you in, pull you out, meet you where you are, but it's like, I'm sure there's such incredible studies that show, like, how different personality types will vibrate with those songs and those lyrics and everything. And also, it's very funny that, of course, people who are super, everyone in this room is extremely empathic, may again resonate more. Like, I'm very cerebral when I'm emotional, and so I'm like, lyrics, lyrics, lyrics. But I could probably, like you're saying, nikki, I could probably use some dance, and I could probably use getting into the vibration more than just thinking about the lyrics all the time. So there's different benefits to different styles, too, from that scientific perspective.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:30:20]:

Thank you, Nina, so much for sharing that.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:30:23]:

Yeah, exactly. No, and I think that goes back to the embodiment piece, which is what I'm going to talk about with my song, is, which is sia, angel by the wings. And I feel like Sia's music, her voice is just so raw and it's so rich that it really evokes those emotions. And for me, helps to get into the embodiment piece of it, because I do believe, at least for me, movement with the lyrics is so important, right? So to really not only be able to connect with the lyrics, because I'm like you in that sense, like, I want to feel like somebody's seeing me and hearing me, and then at the same time, I want the person's voice to really move me. And so even if that means I'm just closing my eyes and I'm listening to the song and allowing my body to move in whatever way feels good in that moment, that's kind of what I'm looking for when I'm choosing a song during a difficult period. So this song, for me, I'm going to age myself now because she came out with this song quite a while ago. But it was, you know, when I was feeling hopeless and I was so, so discouraged, I was, like, really getting deep into the alternative wellness space, you know, getting away from that conventional western approach and trying to figure things out. And this song in particular, there's so much complexity to it in the sense of her in general, giving this story of the transformative power of love and the possibility for healing, but also putting in this sense of resilience and courage and encouragement and affirmation, really is what I found in it, because as I would allow my body to move as I listen to the song, the lyrics she puts, part of her lyrics is saying, you can do anything.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:32:29]:

And I remember just listening to it over and over again on repeat and changing the words as I sang along, saying, I can do anything. I can do anything, I can do anything. As you know, she's saying, you can do anything. You can do anything. You can do anything. So the song is just so beautiful in the sense of encouraging you, but also reinforcing your own power and ability to overcome and the strength that you have to not give up and continue moving forward in whatever your journey is revealing to you at that time.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:33:02]:

It also sounds like Nina. You literally used it to, like, as a literal positive affirmations, plus the vibration, like, you turned it into that, which is like, you basically use two tools in one by doing that, which is so powerful. And do you really feel like this song got you out of something? Like, you feel like it was huge for you?

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:33:24]:

Yes, in the sense that it wasn't letting me give up on myself, because I think what I've found, and I do find that a lot of my clients feel this way, too, is that there comes many points when you're on a healing journey that takes time where you want to give up, where you're so discouraged because you thought you found the one thing that was going to work and everything's going to get better now, only to find that there's something else that we need to work on. And it's about shifting that perspective from, like, okay, I'm just going to get to the end goal to really experiencing the journey and not giving up on yourself, despite the fact that maybe sometimes things are really discouraging and we do need to build that resilience and we do need to have courage, especially during those moments when we are like, I'm so done. I've tried everything. I'm just feeling defeated. And this song was definitely carried me through many, many times of trial and error and wanting to give up and just being like, okay, let me just keep going. And you just find the next thing over time that adds up to the big thing. And I think something I share with my clients a lot is just sometimes the healing is so, so subtle and it's happening in such small increments that it takes time to then be able to look back and be like, oh, wow, I have made a ton of progress. And this song, I feel like you can just keep going back to it.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:34:53]:

In fact, today I was relistening to it and I was just like, wow, it's still so relevant today, right? Even though, you know, I embarked on my own healing journey over ten years ago. So it still is so beautiful to be able to go back to that song and still allow it to give me that encouragement today from a different perspective right now, feeling really well in my body and feeling very strong and still being able to pull from this song and embody in a different way than what I had embodied previously, right when I was, like, really down and struggling and now being able to use it still as a source of strength of, like, wow, I did that and I can do anything, right? And it's just such a testament to the journey and to the experience and how we continue to move forward, you know, with that.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:35:44]:

And Nina, if there's anyone who can do anything, it is you. Like, that is the absolute truth. And I love that we can get different things from the same songs and that it can frame things for us, because oftentimes, all of us are talking to our clients, and we're like, oh, my God. Your histamine symptoms were an eight last week. There are two right now. You can't be disappointed. There are two. We have to be so excited about that.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:36:08]:

Like, what the song meant for you and needed to be for you was one thing. It needed to take you from, like, a zero to a three, and then it then later took you from, like, a seven to a ten with how you felt. But then you also had the reflection, like, I was at a zero with this song. Like, you have that memory and that reflection of it and just that gratitude towards what you've been through and what you've done. So we have to say thank you to Sia also. Thank you, Sia. Thank you. This is a thank you to all the people who have helped us be here and be well.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:36:37]:

And if I can add one more thing, too, add, like, another component to whatever song somebody resonates with as well. Like, using your own voice is actually very powerful and healing in itself. So in addition to allowing the instrumentation, the voice, the music, the lyrics, to connect to using your own voice and connecting to that doesn't matter if you're the best singer in the world or you can't keep a pitch using your own voice and allowing the emotions that you're struggling with and that you're feeling to come out as you're singing, as you're connecting to the lyrics, I think using your own voice can actually be another really wonderful tool that people can use when listening.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:37:19]:

And so you're adding vibration, then again, you're adding energetic frequency, and you're verbalizing these affirmations and everything, too, and also literally simulating your vagus nerve, we know, from humming or singing as well, which is, like, a huge part of the work we do. So that's an easy thing to do. But you have to find the song that matches you and can maybe elevate you on that frequency if any of you ever want. I do an absolutely incredible Dave Matthews impression. Maybe we'll do it after the podcast episode, though, I think. I don't think anyone will listen again if I do it on here. But just in case that's. That's singing I can do or creed, either one.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:37:53]:

Jess, tell us. I'm still waiting for Jess's. I have an idea of, like, where it's gonna go, and I don't know.

 

Jessica's healing anthem to help her anxiety and symptoms of isolation during the pandemic

Jessica Haskin [00:37:59]:

So I think you're gonna be surprised. But I have to say that before I even start I don't know why I'm surprised I didn't even need the vibrations of these songs because I'm actively, like, tearing up as all of you are talking about your journey with this music, which, you know, classic. But so sometimes it's not. It's just, you know, hearing other people's story in relation to a song, even if you haven't felt that way about the song. So my song is, this is me from the greatest showman. So I went a little show tunesy, which, I don't know, maybe surprising love. So, I mean, I have a few reasons for this song. You know, I think when I started to really feel like this was my healing anthem or a song that really resonated with me was probably in mid 2020, which I know was a crazy time for a lot of people.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:38:54]:

I had just started a job about six months before the pandemic, something that was a little different for me just from a overall approach. And I started to wake up with anxiety. And that was something that I never luckily, really experienced before. It changed my appetite. I wasn't eating in the morning. I would eat, you know, a little bit of lunch. Right. I just didn't feel very hungry.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:39:22]:

I was second guessing everything I was saying to a client or my family. And I think a lot of this also kind of stemmed from the lack of, like, socialization that I was used to. You know, I was working from home. You know, two of the. My co workers who I had been working with were out on maternity leave, so I was kind of, you know, alone in this new role and just not as much time with family, friends. I'm a hugger. Not as many hugs. Although I did live with my now husband boyfriend at the time.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:39:54]:

So, you know, there was. But it was just different than. Than what I was, you know, used to being around friends and family all the time. I now think that there were also that. I think it's like the classic both, you know, a mental and physical reason, like manifestations that, you know, there were some pots like symptoms in there and some physical things that I did to help, you know, my. These symptoms, I started to get vertigo, more nausea. And so this song, for. For me, as we talked with many of our clients about and as all of us have probably experienced, whether it's a health related issue or something else, is, you know, that thought spiral right? Where.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:40:34]:

Why do I feel like this? This has never happened to me before. How am I ever going to get rid of it? How am I going to overcome it? And this song, for me. I'll read some of the lyrics. But while they're talking about physical things trying to keep them down or people trying to keep them down because of who they are, it kind of resonated with me as, like, my symptoms trying to keep me down was I, what I was experiencing was trying to keep me down. And this is, you know, she talks about fighting back against. For them, it's someone, for me, it was, you know, these symptoms or something so that she doesn't get, you know, kept down in. In a world that, you know, doesn't want to see her for who she is. So the lyrics that really resonate with me were.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:41:22]:

But I won't let them break me down to dust. I know that there's a place for us for we are glorious when the sharpest words want to cut me down I'm going to send a flood going to drown them out I am brave I am bruised I am who I'm meant to be this is me and so those were like. Like I could belt it out, I could sing it as loud as I wanted, even though I am a terrible singer. But, you know, it felt like when I was, to Nina's point, when I was able to belt those words out of, not only were they words that, like, resonated with me in front of the lyrics, but I also felt like I was getting frustrations out, I was getting symptoms out. I mean, I was getting emotions out. And they also literally talk about marching right there. If you've ever seen the movie, they are marching through New York City and stop my feet, which is something that we know to actually be helpful for, you know, nervous system regulation. But it was like all of these things kind of combined the lyrics, the vibrations, what I knew, what I could picture in my head that they were doing, that I could do for myself, that really made me come back to this song over and over and over again to have all of those experiences.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:42:43]:

I think as I started working with clients even more, we talk a lot about moving our bodies in a way that feels good for us or shaking it out or I yelling into a pillow.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:42:54]:

Right.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:42:55]:

And sometimes people don't feel so comfortable, you know, just standing up and shaking it out or just dancing around with no music on or yelling into a pillow. And so I feel like music is one of those things where you can put it on any song. You don't have to feel so connected like we all do to this one song. Or maybe you do, but help you feel more comfortable shaking it out or belting it out. Or stomping your feet to really, you know, be able to take that nervous system to another. And even though now I have, you know, definitely kind of overcome a lot of those feelings, I still listen to this song very often and continue to belt it out because it just felt. It feels like such a comfort for me from, you know, the years that I did listen to it for very specific reasons.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:43:44]:

And, you know, Jess, you're like, like we talked about in the beginning, you are a hyper social person. You're a master connector. You are, like, exuding warmth, connection. You see people. And so much of this song and your description of it, what I get from it is that it felt like you are you no matter who you are. It captures the uniqueness of each person. And at the same time, you needed a fighting song. And I'll share.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:44:11]:

Jess recently went to a third eye blind concert, which is my third favorite band of all time. And I, we were talking about how when Jess was young, her and her friends would literally be, like, bouncing on couches, jumping on bed, screaming, third eye blind together. So for you, it's really funny that we just talked about this because you emanated the experience when isolation was one of the big triggers for you. You emanated that stomping, that jumping around, that childlike joy that was Jess's inner child. So you also, like, did that, which is so powerful and cool, 100%.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:44:42]:

And honestly, until this very moment, I didn't even connect that. But there you go. That's probably why. Part of the reason why it. It was so powerful for me to do all those things, because it felt like my inner child's coming out.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:44:58]:

What's safer than sitting in, like, a nineties basement and jumping on couches and screaming third eye blind. I can't even imagine a safer experience that any of us had. It's just unbelievable. I also just. I didn't even think about show tunes. Oh, my gosh. I would have done, like, les Mis. Can you hear the.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:45:13]:

Do you hear the people sing like some again, like, stomping and marching and rebellion and resistance? That. That resonates with me a lot, for sure.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:45:21]:

100%. I feel like show tunes are one of those ones that you can really belt out, at least personally, for me. So that's why I came. That's where this one came from. But I thought it was going to be a little surprising with the show tunes.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:45:33]:

No, but you just know it, so lines up with you, and I'm. I'm really grateful. We don't know what's the musical artist. How can we thank for this?

 

Jessica Haskin [00:45:42]:

Her name is Kayla Settle. And even if you're not a musical person or if you don't want to watch the greatest showman, I highly recommend listening to this song. She has the most incredible voice. I'm tone deaf, so you don't want to listen to me sing it, but you might want to listen to her sing it.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:46:00]:

So then we say our thing. Thank you, Kayla settle. Thank you for what you've done. We love you. Thank you, Sarah. Yeah.

 

How Sarah's healing anthem allowed her to connect with her emotions and get through anxious periods

Sarah [00:46:07]:

So it's really awesome to hear everyone's experience of how music has guided them through really difficult times in life. And it just really speaks to the power of music and its association with movement and vibration and being able to stimulate that vagus nerve, get us through really stressful times. And really, you know, we know that even I, the vagus nerve, stimulating it with those singing and humming vibrations can modulate immune responses and do all of these amazing things in our body. And it's also hilarious because after hearing you all speak about all of your songs, I thought about so many more songs that I could have used where this almost felt like, what song would I use? So the song that I chose is hello by Adele.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:47:02]:

I just started crying when he just said that. Oh, my God.

 

Sarah [00:47:05]:

Exactly. So for me, and I think for many of us, Adele's music is just something that enabled this emotional release and this cathartic experience of just being able to release all of those emotions that oftentimes get bottled up. And this song is just, it almost feel, I don't want to, I don't want to diss the delta, say, it's simplistic in the lyrics, but it's, you know, it's saying, like, hello from the other side. And to me, that's just, you know, it's not, not a long, complex phrase, but it's really saying, you can get through this. You can get to the other side. Like, I am saying hello to you from the, from the future, like, from the other side of whatever it is that we're going through. And also, there is nothing more, like, releasing or just amazing than being able to blast Adele hello and sing along in my also horrible voice and just get it all out. Like, get all of those emotions out, feel all the feelings, and just go through it all with Adele.

 

Sarah [00:48:21]:

And, yeah, I feel like music is just an incredible way to experience whatever we're going through. For me in particular, I've, you know, definitely had phases of my life where I felt very anxious. And apparently I appear calm. Not always. Not always.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:48:40]:

So unless you're a client plan, Sarah, you're like, is this perfect? And are they going to be okay forever? I'm like, yes, Sarah, everything's perfect, Sarah. They're good. Okay.

 

Sarah [00:48:51]:

So I guess maybe I'm not as joke moth as cool as I think I do.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:48:54]:

No, you do. We're very elegant. We always joke. She's very elegant. That's Sarah. Have you seen her live? I've never seen Adele live.

 

Sarah [00:49:00]:

Yes. My dear future mother in law took me the best, like, the best experience ever. And everyone was, like, screaming along the lyrics. Even people that you wouldn't, I mean, everyone who's there wants to be there, but even people that you wouldn't really expect to be there were just screaming, dancing, shaking it all out. There were multiple, it was in Vegas, so there were multiple people there who were there for, like, divorce parties as well as bachelorette parties. And just, like, the joy and the release was just something that was so palpable. And she's also the most amazing personality. Like, she's just, again, she's like a.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:49:40]:

Comedian on top of being. She's just an entertainer on top of everything else, too. Adele's like, I don't want to award a win, but Adele's, like, gonna win in most categories and in any musical category that exists. Yeah, Adele's is gonna win. That was a really, I have cried so many. I could not even not cry when you said, I, Adele. And I do know that you love Adele, and I should have seen it coming. I did make a joke with Sarah.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:50:06]:

I was like. Cause Sarah said, you know, it's one of my favorite musical artists because I didn't have anyone tell me their song, but I made Sarah, like, tease it to me a little bit, and I was like, I didn't know Martha Stewart could sing because Sarah's obsessed with Martha Stewart. I was like, this is. Oh, I didn't, I didn't know Martha also did that. She could probably Sarah, right? She's best. Exactly.

 

Jessica Haskin [00:50:23]:

Probably. She's the best.

 

Sarah [00:50:24]:

Yeah, I.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:50:26]:

Well, and again, thank you, Adele. And additionally, thank you to Sarah's mother in law for getting her the tickets, because that's part of the healing experience. And I feel like, and I know, you know, Nikki and I, as are, like, the concert duo, and we'll go to, like, any music venue together because of how we connect so much when we're listening to music and we have such similar music tastes. Also, I feel like the healing experience of going to concerts and the social experience, Jess, is also really profound. But, of course, course, there's things that limit people physically from being able to do that financially. Also, concerts are so freaking expensive now, too. But that Nina, that vibrational energy when you're in a concert, too. Except Nina, like, again, I knew yours was going to be more on the popper house end.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:51:12]:

I feel like that. I was like, Nina needs beats. Nina's, like, in a club. That's how I'm picturing Nina when it comes to music. Like, she's dancing, she's moving, or, like, doing some sort of, like, spiritual embodiment kind of movement. I'm like, but Nina's gonna have some. There's gonna be some sound in Nina's song, for sure.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:51:28]:

Yes. I mean, I definitely. I do believe that dancing and this is part of embodiment, right? Just moving your body whatever way feels comfortable. But dancing, I do think, brought me through my twenties, like, going to Manhattan or queens, wherever, and just dancing my little heart out of every weekend. I truly believe it's part of what saved me, you know, in my twenties, especially my early twenties, when I was struggling very, very much mentally, hormonally, you know, physically. I think there's so much to be said for that. And it's becoming kind of this lost art, in a sense, because of, you know, the way our society is shifting and changing. But there's so much power to music and dance and just using our bodies right, as this healing tool alone.

 

The importance of living life fully despite health challenges

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:52:20]:

I think sometimes we can forget about that when we're sick and when we're not feeling our best. How many tools we actually have within this vessel and. And how many things we can actually pull from our own bodies and viewing our bodies as, you know, a source of healing outside of just, like, the food or the movement or, you know, supplements, et cetera, 100%.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:52:43]:

And, you know, chronic illness can strip us of opportunities, and then it's also our responsibility, too. Like Jess's songs and my songs specifically, that are really about rebellion and resistance. We have to still live life. And a lot of the work that we all do with clients is about. I will write this in client battle plans. We're making your world bigger, not smaller. That is the goal. So you better believe.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:53:07]:

By the way, we're at an emo concert, Nikki and I. Nikki's got a half eaten protein bar in her pocket. Okay. I'm wearing compression tights under my, like, crop top and skirt. Okay, we're gonna go. And then, you know, I'm. Nikki is a dance. Nikki's like a very athletic, physical person.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:53:24]:

I'm like, you know, doing my best with the hypermobility stuff, you know, I don't know what else to call it, but, like, we're gonna get there and it's got. It might be costly in ways of. We might both need the day to recover after, but whatever we need to. If I need to wear a neck brace and it was to go to a concert, that meant something to me. I have done it and I will do it again. I don't care what anyone else is experiencing and how they're experiencing me. That's my experience and my shared experience. So that I'm also telling people that if you even do have limitations, you know, my sister has had a lot of spinal surgeries.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:53:59]:

She needs to sit. So we also, if we go to terminal five, we'll get a little, you know, seats up top, same price. And we're in our own. A section of our own that's completely coveted, you know, because my sister also is not afraid to ask for something that she needs. Like, she needs to sit. She needs to sit. And I just advocating for yourself to get those experiences, because if we let ourselves be so sick that we back ourselves into a corner and we stop having those experiences, like Jess, you experienced in being isolated, that brings on new symptoms also, right. For someone who's extremely extroverted, especially even though we all need people.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:54:33]:

So if you need to strap on your neck brace, your compression socks, throw that half eaten protein bar. I think it was half eaten, Nikki. I don't think it was a whole protein bar.

 

Nicki Parlitsis [00:54:41]:

No, I would never have eaten that whole thing at the same time because that would be normal. And I can't be normal. So I guarantee you it was a.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:54:49]:

Happy now are you getting the trash me and Nikki thing yet? By the way, Nina and Sara, like, Nikki and Michelle, don't call yourselves trash. If you're eating caffeine protein bars out of your skirt pocket, yes, you're trash. And it's okay. And we love that about ourselves, by the way. And also, like, it's weird that I'm wearing compression socks and tights to a concert. I also truly don't care because nothing's going to keep us from having those moments together with the music. And that's really. I think the message, too, is be in a state of rebellion about your health.

 

Caring for others and ourselves is essential in health journeys

Michelle Shapiro [00:55:14]:

Like, don't surrender. You can surrender to when you need to and then you have no choice. If any of us are in your life, you're going to have no choice but to get back up and get back out, too. So I wanted to. How greedy. I wanted to leave us with one other song lyric that I feel like helps. Helps me frame the work that we do with clients and how we show up on social media and how we interact with the nutrition world. So this is a queen song that everyone in the world knows under pressure.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:55:42]:

And by the way, I saw queen with Adam Lamberthe, and it was the closest thing to a religious experience in just music that's not religious, that could be experienced. It was absolutely out of control. Rest in peace, Freddie Mercury. And thank you for what you've given us, too. So at the end of under pressure, there's this very discreet paragraph that really influences me, and it's how I feel about the work that we all do and this similarity and thread that we all tie in and the work that we do, even though we have these different personalities and all this. So it says, can't we give ourselves one more chance? Why can't we give love that one more chance? Why can't we give love, give love? And then he says, give love, like, ten times. And then they start saying, because love's such an old fashioned word and love dares you to care for the people on the edge of the night and love dares you to change our way of caring about ourselves. So the ultimate message, and my final line, that's four songs.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:56:39]:

Very greedy. Oh, come on, let me be greedy, guys, is in Les Mis. My favorite line of any show is a line that's at the end. Also, it says, to love another person is to see the face of God. So I think that a theme that we've all touched on, too, is the caring about other people through love, and caring about our clients and each other through love is so profound in ourselves. So I just think love is love and rebellion and vagus nerve and embodiment, and all of these things are what makes music so healing for us. And I think it is a testament to just all of your individual parts of you. But then, at the core of it, healing is healing, because there's.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:57:20]:

There's a message here, which is that you have to be in the fight, and you have to forgive yourself, and you have to keep chugging along and you have to keep loving.

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:57:27]:

All you need is love.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:57:29]:

I know, Nina, that was really good. Do you know that there's. I have that tattoo on my foot, by the way?

 

Nina Pasaya Saro [00:57:34]:

Oh, really?

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:57:35]:

I didn't. I can't believe you just did that. So I guess, what am I doing? Five songs here. All right, my sister and I are four days apart. Three years, but four days apart for our birthdays. I'm July 9. She's July 13. No one listening to this will be surprised.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:57:50]:

I'm in cancer. Like, so obvious that I'm in cancer. My sister's 21st birthday. On my 18th, we got tattoos together on our feet. And mine says, love is all you need. And her says, all you need is love. And when you line our feet up, it reads like one lyrichead all the way across. And when I was not okay, at the end of all you need is love, it just says 100 times, love is all you need.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:58:13]:

Love is all you need. And I would listen to that, like, on the train. I would just, like, literally remember myself being on the subway and just, like, going to the last 45 seconds of the song. Listening to love is all you need. Love is all you need. Yes, Nina. And you didn't even know that was my tattoo. How cool.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:58:28]:

You tell, like, telepathic into my foot. I love that. Emoting into my foot. I'm obsessed. That's amazing. Thank you all so much. And I'm so glad that you guys came on because I know your clients all know you, but for people who aren't your clients yet, I wanted them to feel your energy and learn your personalities that I have grown to be so completely obsessed with. So thank you all for coming on, and I am.

 

Michelle Shapiro [00:58:50]:

I can't wait to release this episode. Probably my favorite episode of podcast ever. Thank you, guys.